Annabelen Hemelgarn on Building Trust Before Asking for the Sale

Jordan Lally:0:00
Welcome back to the High Ticket AI Systems Podcast. Everyone, please welcome the one and only Mrs. Annabellen Hemlergin. Thinking it right? That's it. Hemlergard. For the crowd, for the crowd, because I English is my first language and I still cannot speak it. For for the crowd, please, please give us the correct pronunciation.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:0:08
Hamelgarn. Hamelgarn. You got it.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:0:22
It is Annabellein Hemelgarn. There you go.

Jordan Lally:0:24
Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us on the show. I'm excited to dive in. really quick so the audience has a bit of background on us. At a very high level, what would you say the company does and who would you say you guys serve the best?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:0:40
Okay. We help businesses, usually small to medium sized businesses, scale their business and automate and become more efficient in a nutshell. Right? And again, we work with high ticket service based industries. It could be an attorney, it could be high coaches, high ticket coaches, it can be med spas, chiropractors, dentists, that kind of thing.

Jordan Lally:1:04
Gotcha. Would you say you have not a favorite, but a one where you feel like you have a n I don't wanna say repeatable process, but like a system for X industry. It's like I know if I work with X Avatar, we can deliver Y services and then get Z result. Do you feel like you're gonna have that in place right now?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:1:27
We have that for our coaches, honestly. We definitely have that for our coaches. but we wanna we we've been having great success with our attorneys as well, and actually a financial planner, so always opening doors.

Jordan Lally:1:42
Interesting.

Absolutely. And w when you say you are automating systems and systems, can you give us a high level overview of what that might look like for a person that doesn't know what that means or they wanna know more

Annabelen Hemelgarn:1:56
Yes. We literally do create systems and that means anything from all the way from lead nurture, how do you follow up with a customer, how do you get a customer lead magnets, all that stuff, all the way down to how do you close the sale, how do you fulfill, how do you keep yourself going? That's anything that you can automate, anything you can get rid of repetitive tasks, but be effective, that's what we do.

Jordan Lally:2:21
So I'm gonna ask some nitty goody questions because I'm gonna tr extract some info. So imagine you're working with me and you do you do you run lead gen campaigns or just they they get the lead somehow through various methods and then once they're in the ecosystem, then your process and system starts or takes

Annabelen Hemelgarn:2:40
No, we can do any of it. We can start with the lead gen and create whether it's through SEO getting leads or if it's creating leads through ads, right? and or it could even be social media where we have some really strong CTAs to get them into your pipeline and then to start nurturing your leads to get, you know, customers.

Jordan Lally:3:05
I love how you brought up lead magnets as a primary acquisition channel. I'm a big component of that. I think Alex Romanski talks about this. A lot of other people talk about this, but the law of reciprocity is definitely in effect with this. But secondly, I think you build so much authority and so much trust with your ideal client when you provide value for free, you know? And even if they even if they never work with you and they consume it, you know, hats off to them. That's okay. That's just their personality.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:3:12
Uh-huh.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:3:27
Yes.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:3:34
Right. Right.

Jordan Lally:3:35
There's other business individuals where they say, I'm way too busy. I'm obviously not the expert in this, but you are, take my money and let's let's make some more with it. Right. So hats off to you and the lead magnets. Where or not where? What type of lead magnet would you say is converting best for the coaching industry? Because I I am very familiar with that space, so I want to stay there.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:3:58
Yes, okay. So if we're gonna go with coaches, I find that they do very well with like certain small quizzes also help really quickly to get people to or polls or something like that where you're saying something but then they're you're triggering questions in the person's head while they're answering it, right? So those things work really well, as well as obviously I mean I I we do have quite a few of them where we have value add like checklists or PDF like tips that also work. Depending on the client and depending on what their services are, those are the things that kind of work with them.

Jordan Lally:4:44
From checklist, checklists were great because if you can solve one step of the many step problem, it's it's like it it's it works as a pretty good lead magnet, right? It's like, okay, cool. In this example, there's five steps to get to the pot of the freaking rainbow at the end, right? Okay, we're gonna solve one and like if you want us to solve the other four, you're gonna pay us, right? And I think that it's phenomenal. It works, it works excep exceptionally well.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:4:58
Right.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:5:10
Exactly. Yes, it works amazing, right?

Jordan Lally:5:15
absolutely. Let's see. Okay, cool. So they're in the eco actually could you give us an example of the questions you would ask that helps the prospect maybe think about their actions or or choices differently through this quiz funnel?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:5:31
so let's say we are talking to I'm a business coach and I provide like mindset things, right? Maybe maybe that. And I think I'm trying to think of how I would frame it. I actually what is the question again? Ha ha I'm like Yeah, that's what I figured, but I was like, what was the question again before I I was trying to think of a scenario and I lost the question.

Jordan Lally:5:56
We we can you're totally fine. We can always edit. My editor is fantastic.

Jordan Lally:6:07
Totally good. Well because you said lead magnets sometimes utilize questions or like quiz funnel that allows or lets the prospect think about their choices differently. Like because you ask X questions, like, I've never even thought about that. And I'm the prospect and now I'm like thinking about the solution differently now.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:6:13
Questions.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:6:29
Okay. so say for example I'm talking to a coach and there's they're struggling with hey, I cannot get any leads, right? I I have all this information and I don't have leads. So I'm just talking to the coach itself. I guess this is not really for a lead magnet. Let me go back. Hold on, let me think on this. I keep on thinking. I told you my brain's not working right now.

Jordan Lally:6:57
Okay. And we could always honestly we could always pivot.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:7:01
I know you're gonna pivot. Pivot real quick because I can't even come up with a I cannot right now.

Jordan Lally:7:06
You're talking again. So now that the lead is in the ecosystem, you talked about the the lead nurturing process, which is so vitally important, right? Like they're a lead. They're in your ecosystem. You should follow up with them as many as many times as humanly possible. Like you paid money to acquire them as a lead, you know? Businesses sometimes in my opinion get get lazy. And like we're all a little lazy, but don't be lazy, all right? We wanna win. Nonetheless, do you have like a philosophy, a principle, like a system?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:7:25
Right.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:7:29
Right.

I love that.

Jordan Lally:7:36
Where a lead is now in the ecosystem. Like what happens next? Like how many times do you reach out? How many texts, emails, calls, all

Annabelen Hemelgarn:7:45
Okay, so one of the things that you said earlier, which I completely agree upon, is that you need to provide value, right? And so for us, lead when you get a lead in, you want to completely provide value. Whether that's educating them, that's helping them put their themselves in scenarios, so it could be a story that they can feel they can feel empathetic with, or it's just hey These are how-tos. You have this issue, you need to solve it. So here are the five steps, and here's one step that you can go deep dive, or here's one prompt that you can use to solve this, or here's whatever, right? So always in all our emails, we the goal is to provide so much value that the person on the other side is like, chew, man, this person knows what they're talking about. And I really need to talk to them a little bit further because I need their help on the other thing, right?

So that's where you want you wanna be. You want to become the expert because you're providing so much value. And that's what your emails are supposed to do. Whether you do that consistently, like once a month or whatever, I actually I like to be in front of their face because when you get a lead, they're really not ready for you yet, honestly. Right? So you really want to make sure that they trust you, they know you, they know that you can solve their problems. So you wanna be able to provide value. often and even if it's every day, if you're providing value, the people don't care. It's when you stop providing value that they're like, this person's a pest and I'm not gonna deal with them. So hope that answers your question.

Jordan Lally:9:20
No, absolutely. And I learned this, I did not coin this. I I wish I was this intelligent. I learned this from Jeremy Jeremy Haynes, a legend in the in the online advertising space. But long story short, there's six stages the way he articulates this. There's six stages of the of the buying cycle. The first two is like unaware. Like I have no idea that this company even exists in the world at all. So that's that's level one, unaware.

And then there's like, okay, I've seen their ad before. Like I I know they exist, right? I I don't know what they do, what their name is, but I know they're in the world now. The third one is like curious. Like, okay, I seen their ad a couple times. Like I I I think I know what the offer is. I'm curious. And whenever you're curious, that's the first point where you actually take action. Whether it's downloading the lead magnet, booking a demo with them, you know, filling out a lead form, etc. Now people think, and you said this perfectly, just because they're a lead.

Now doesn't mean they want to give you their money yet. Like they're not sold just yet. Like they filled out information or scheduled a demo with you because they want more information. So what you said, whenever a whenever a lead enters the ecosystem, we provide as much value as humanly possible. That actually shortens sales cycles. Because the two stages that follow, it's like, okay, I'm curious. Now I'm interested. Now I'm I'm like really, really interested. That's the fifth stage. And then I'm sold.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:10:23
Right.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:10:39
Correct.

Jordan Lally:10:48
Like that's that that's level six. And when I'm sold, I give you my money, right? In in order in order to short in order to shorten these sales cycles, like you s like I said, you said it perfectly, give them as much value as humanly possible, right? Without necessarily them asking for it. And and what are some things that they're gonna wanna know? Like if you help with X, we call this, he calls this backend selling systems. It's like behind the scenes state peek into the course for into your mastermind if you're an online coach.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:10:50
Right. Yes.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:11:01
Yes. Mm-hmm.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:11:11
Mm-hmm.

Jordan Lally:11:17
Selling a course, right? like some interviews that you've actually done with clients and like have have a live case study that builds trust, right? Or like your methodology, like your your philosophy and methodology broken down in plain English on what the market does and I and why we think it's failing this way, what we do, benefit from the way that we do it, right? If you can just like hammer them, he says, hammer them with this value.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:11:18
Mm-hmm.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:11:37
Mm-hmm.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:11:44
Yeah.

Jordan Lally:11:45
Like the probability of them converting quicker goes up significantly.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:11:49
Exactly. You're so true, so true. And there's so many ways to do that, you know? And again, like I said, with all those lead magnets, you can always give them something where they download a PDF or another or use a prompt or whatever it could be. Sometimes we even just do it's so much easier with AI. We create like a mock mini minimum viable product if there's an actual product that we can provide for them.

That is also something that you're providing value, you're opening up their eyes to I don't kn I didn't know what I didn't know, right? So what you're trying to do is teach them what they didn't know. So then all of a sudden they're like, Wait, I love that. Now I need that because I didn't know I needed that. So that's what th is gonna be like the aha moment, if you will.

Jordan Lally:12:35
Absolutely. And there I just I just I was doom scrolling last night. World, please forgive me. But I came across this video about Alex. Do you know what Doom Scrolling is?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:12:41
Ha

Annabelen Hemelgarn:12:45
gosh, my husband does it all the time. All the time.

Jordan Lally:12:46
shout out the husband. No kidding. But but yeah, like last night I was dude scrolling for literally no reason. But nonetheless, I I was watching Alex Hermosy and he said, We analyzed 200 top performing ads, and 40 of them, like 40 of them, all they said in the ad was just proof. Like they just had proof that this worked, right? And like, okay, I guess that makes sense. But like the the kicker behind that is like people just want to know that like it it works, right? And the more proof you have, like that's all they really need to know to be convinced. It's like, does it actually work? The second thing, and and this is the more important thing, is you don't know what you don't know. So if you can explain something and articulate yourself in a new way and truly educate the audience and educate the prospect, it's like, this person has to be smart. He just taught me something. You know what I mean? So and and that's the thing about being an expert. Like I know

Annabelen Hemelgarn:13:40
Right. Right. Right.

Jordan Lally:13:45
I feel like I know nothing in the world. But like if you put me in this corner, I know like these three things to my to my fullest extent. Like I know I know these three things. But everything else, don't know. Don't ask me, don't care. But these things, I'm an expert. And I feel like that th that that's what allows business owners to actually succeed, right? Is like not niching down, but just being the expert in like two or three things, you know?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:13:54
Yeah.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:14:00
You know it.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:14:04
Right.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:14:09
Yes. No, I love it. I love it, love it.

Jordan Lally:14:12
Yeah, sorry, I I get I get a little hype.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:14:15
No, I think that's great. Actually, it's so funny you say that because like one of the things I harp on, I wrote a book called The Thinking Edge. And in the book, it's kind of like how do you stay relevant in the age of AI? But what I'm trying to get people to understand is it's AI's there to support us, but it's our brains, it's our thinking, it's that expertise that you were just talking about. That expertise that puts you above everything else is what's gonna keep you relevant. And that's what I think people need to just focus on. is those three things that they really, really know and how do they help people whatever it is they know.

Jordan Lally:14:50
Right, right. No, one hundred percent. And on the topic of AI, it is a tool, right? And if you are going to give a a hammer to a a novice frickin' home builder or contractor, probably not gonna build the nicest home, right? Or if you give a freaking hammer or a tool to a twenty five year expert, he's gonna build a pretty sick ass home, right? Really cool house. May may be a bad example, but I think I I think you know what I'm saying with that.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:14:56
Yes.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:15:05
Right.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:15:12
Yes, yes.

I think that's a great example. Absolutely.

Jordan Lally:15:19
Yeah, so obviously like you were saying, if you are the expert in in said space, you can provide all this context to AI and now your answers, your product, your systems are all enhanced because of the initial context you gave.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:15:30
Correct. Correct.

Absolutely.

Jordan Lally:15:36
Let me ask a separate question here. Okay, cool. So working with coaches, lead magnets are the Reballer. You help with systems and processes. When I hypothetically work with you, right? I guess what are the deliverables? Is there like coaching or mentoring of any kind? Like how does a support system work?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:15:58
So we have a few things because we're more of an execution, right? We create automations. That's a product that we provide. We have a toolbox for people who can utilize their all in one marketing needs, I guess you would say. but what's really cool is I'm again, I'm really big on trying to put your brain into it. So before you even start, we create a brain and knowledge base.

And then it creates your content, it creates your blogs, it creates your social media, it creates your avatars, all that good stuff. But it comes from here first, right? Here, your goals, your who you are, your vision, who's your audience, what do you want to help them with, all that good stuff, right? so I feel like that is one that we also provide. And then with that tool, we also have calls, group calls. for them to, you know, maximize it, for people to share how they're using it, all that stuff. but then with our other customers where we're actually creating automations, we always try to build a partnership with them. And so we'll have calls with them. Sometimes it's weekly, sometimes it's monthly. Usually at the beginning it's weekly, then it turns to monthly calls. But how do we make sure we're effectively giving them the product that they need? So it's always a constant communication, regardless of what kind of path they use our products with.

Jordan Lally:17:18
Gotcha. I think you said something pretty important where the onboarding process, it's initially a few weekly calls, like for the cadence, and then it kind of drips off to monthly. I learned that from Cole Morton whenever I was in his program. And I didn't know why until I obviously I guess learned why. You don't know what you don't know. But the whenever someone's brand new into a program, they're learning a lot. They're getting a lot of support. They're just getting their feet wet, etc. etc.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:17:26
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:17:38
Ha ha ha

Annabelen Hemelgarn:17:46
Yes.

Jordan Lally:17:48
And if you can kind of coach them, mentor them through the first four weeks, right? So onboarding and then three follow-up one-on-ones weekly, it's like, okay, I know the community, I know the product, I know how to get support, I feel like I have my basis. And then around 30 days or later, you can you can fall off to monthly. And what we we've noticed internally, and I'm sure you've noticed it as well, is retention is is a bit more sticky or it's stickier than whenever you ask.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:17:52
Mm-hmm.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:18:14
Yes. Right.

Jordan Lally:18:16
question is the husband involved in the business at all? No? Okay.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:18:23
No, unfortunately. I wish he was, but for now he's not. I keep on trying.

Jordan Lally:18:28
Okay, no worries, no worries.

He he doesn't want to partake?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:18:34
he he's no, not right now. We'll keep it at that.

Jordan Lally:18:38
Alright, we'll keep we'll keep it there. We'll keep it there. No For sure. okay. What are these systems that you like the software? Is it is it your own software for systems?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:18:51
Correct. Yes.

It's pretty incredible. Yeah. The tool that we have makes incredible incredible content. But again, it's truly because it's linked up to your knowledge base, right? we also I have a really great part at the very beginning is the your very dashboard. We'll show your calendar, it'll show you like it has a personal concierge so you can ask you questions like what should I prioritize today? And again, it's coming from

Jordan Lally:18:56
Yeah.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:19:25
your goals and what you're trying to achieve. So it helps you plan what you're supposed to do for the day. It gives you tasks that you're supposed to do. It shows you your your daily meetings. And what I love about it too, it scrolls through my email and only shows me the most important things I have to answer. Because I hate email. So anyway, so that's a nice little fun little trick I have in my little app that really saves again, it's about saving time, being more effective and being you know, That's the word I'm trying to use. Just managing your time. That's it.

Jordan Lally:20:00
No, I absolutely. And I don't know when I learned this, but I learned this. And you you said something pretty important. Personally, and I think most business owners care about just these two things making more money or saving time. Right. And like if you really if you think in I I maybe I'm wrong, but at a very high level I think I'm right. If you look at like all the products and services out there that businesses invest in, I promise you it's making more money or it's saving time. Like that's why they're doing it.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:20:27
One hundred percent. That's exactly it. That's why I think I have a home run right now.

Jordan Lally:20:30
That's funny. So the Yeah, no, and th that was the follow up question is I would love to know more about this this MVP or like this actual software product. Is this yours you developed internally? Do you do you license do you license this out to clients? Is that part of like the the pattern? Okay.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:20:44
Correct. It is.

I do. It is exactly. I'm actually looking for affiliates right now to get it out. My goal is to sell five hundred. We just launched it. So my goal is to have a five hundred by the end of the year. So obviously I'm looking for some affiliate people who want to sell it, but then I'm also you can white label it as well for agencies if that's something that they might want to give to their audience. Something like that too. All kinds of solutions.

Jordan Lally:21:12
What would ballpark what would if if one were to just work with the software, like not the full package of anything, ballpark, what would that cost someone? Is it monthly, yearly?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:21:22
So we have three tiers. Yep, it's monthly, three tiers. The main basic one is $97. So that's where it starts. It ends up at $4.97. Three so ninety-seven, two ninety-seven, four ninety-seven. And the ninety-seven dollar one is just your brain, it's some content, it's your daily calendar and what to do, right? And then After that, when it gets into automations or social media or any kind of development pipelines, that kind of stuff, that's where it ramps up. So

Jordan Lally:21:56
Gosh you, I'm so sorry. I need some more coffee. Freaking me. Editor. Do your job. No, I'm kidding. But Okay. I've I he's he's I fucking love that guy, honestly. No, he's he's the coolest person ever. I always fuck with him. It's trust me, it's all low when I say that. But Damit. Okay, so nine $97 up to $4.97. You said they get you said they get content with this. So

Annabelen Hemelgarn:22:00
Yep, I hear you.

Jordan Lally:22:24
Talk to me. What do you mean? Like how how how how that worked like video scripts, video content, carousels?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:22:28
Yes. We have video scripts, we have blogs, we have definitely social media posts, because you always gotta have the social media posts, but it also helps you create the images. We have an image lab, we have a video lab, we can make an avatar, we can clone your voice, you know, it's pretty much got everything you kind of need in a in an app that's all in one. My goal in it and my vision is to stay in the app. So you don't have to have all this extraneous tools.

Because I don't know about you, but when I subscribe to five million different AI apps and actually just apps in general, I find that I don't know how to use them all. And I end up just tabling it and then I pay out the wazoo for another app that I just never use, right? Because I just don't know how to use it or I can't I have to jump back from this to this to this and I it just it's too much. And again, what did we say? Make money, save time.

So I wasn't making money, I was losing because I keep on buying all these apps and I was definitely not saving time because I was doing five million different things. And I was trying to learn it all. Can't do it. So that's what I that was the whole premise of the toolbox.

Jordan Lally:23:38
That's actually really important that I think low ticket subscription apps could probably, you know, take take advice from is like have an onboarding video, like if it's just in the mobile app, like a few onboarding videos on like how to actually work today. Because if you were to purchase like enterprise SaaS, like fifty thousand dollar, a hundred thousand dollar like per year subscriptions, like best believe you're getting onboarding. Like it it's like a month onboarding process.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:24:02
Yeah, heck yeah. It's a major yes.

Jordan Lally:24:06
You know what I mean? To ensure that you know what the hell you just purchased and how to use the damn software, right? When it comes to we do like to talk about client acquisition systems, if you don't mind. What are some systems you like to utilize for for you and the company?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:24:11
Cobra.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:24:18
Mm-hmm.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:24:23
so for client acquisition, I like to we actually use our tool obviously to onboard and bring them on and within our client acquisition we will use the tools to nurture again like use it for them to help n nurture their leads. and that's actually setting it up, right? I think the biggest problem is When you get a new client, getting them set up for success sometimes doesn't happen and that's that's where you lose your clients, right? You want to make sure that they're very clear on what they get, how they get it, when they get it, and all that stuff. So setting up expectations for our client acquisitions, trying to get that started on onboarding, and then from there, we then help them all the way through the process. It's like holding their hand. It doesn't necessarily have to be one to one meetings, it could be coaching, it could be group calls, it could be videos that we provide for them. Does that make sense? Did I answer that question?

Jordan Lally:25:28
Mm-hmm yeah, kind of, yeah, yeah. When you are, I guess, acquiring new clients for yourself, do you put a networking event to like speaking engagements or do you run an ad to like call them, LinkedIn at all?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:25:42
Yes, hi. We actually do webinars is our probably our biggest one right now. and we have been doing Facebook ads as well and of course social media just getting some organic. Currently that's what we're doing currently for our for us. and then of course for our clients we can do Facebook ads, Google ads. and we have a really cool nifty LinkedIn

Jordan Lally:25:47
We're

Annabelen Hemelgarn:26:09
Outreach as well that's been working pretty well for us. Which is kind of fine, sorry.

Jordan Lally:26:14
No, you're okay. Okay, good stuff. Talking about the webinar, I know from Jeremy Haynes, the guy that I follow pretty religiously. Webinars right now are crushing. So, do you run Facebook ads to drive traffic to the webinar? Okay, cool. Is there

Annabelen Hemelgarn:26:28
Yes. And we just started doing that recently. I had to stop for a while just because we were building the the thing that we were gonna share. But now that we've launched it, now that we're we're gonna be doing it at a cadence of every week.

Jordan Lally:26:41
Yes, okay. Well what time do you like to go?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:26:45
Right now we're doing lunchtime. what 'cause I'm East Coast right now, so it allows me to take Pacific PS T time and they can still do it and it's not too late. I mean it's not too early and then the other's not too late. And then it for Eastern they're it's on their lunch break. So it kind of works out for now.

Jordan Lally:26:48
Last time with the Okay.

Jordan Lally:27:05
For sure. What day of the week do you like to host the webinars?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:27:09
Right now we do Fridays and we're gonna start actually doing Tuesdays. I don't necessarily think Fridays sometimes people clock out. So I I think I'm gonna be moving it to Tuesdays. I've been doing it I haven't really tested a lot yet, so I'm in that process.

Jordan Lally:27:25
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And for your demographic, lunchtime works great. If you sold to consumers like corporate individuals, like a side hustle, I'd say after after 5 PM. Like Yeah. Or the weekend. for the funnel that you're currently using, is it an opt-in? And when do you typically start launching ads for the webinar?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:27:29
Yeah.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:27:34
Uhhuh. After hours, yeah. Yeah.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:27:49
So we launched ads for the webinar a week before, just because people are short lived. If I do it longer, people forget even why they even signed up for me. So for that for sure a week before and then sometimes it like like said during our post, it's kind of like lukewarm, lukewarm, lukewarm, and then the week before then we'll say CTAs to the the actual webinar.

Jordan Lally:28:17
Is it a live webinar or a recorded Okay. Good, good, good. Keep it live. Keep it live. I I don't think people or you can do he talked about this, I think at like high levels of scale. maybe this might work. But essentially that the first five, ten minutes is live. So like, okay, it's live, it's live. And then like you fucking cut to like the recorded webinar. Like I I don't know if that's successful, but he said it like it's open to try, but

Annabelen Hemelgarn:28:19
Yes, right now. Right now's life.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:28:38
Yeah.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:28:47
I've seen it work. I've never done it, honestly. And the problem with my stuff is I keep on changing things, right? Or we keep on adding new things. So I can't. I cannot possibly do it recorded because it just won't do it justice. So yeah. Yeah.

Jordan Lally:28:49
Yeah.

Jordan Lally:28:59
You gotta perfect it. No exactly. So what what's essentially the product and the price point what you're selling on the webinar? Is it like a yearly subscription with like major discount and like I guess yeah, I'll I'll let you answer.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:29:14
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is actually, it's if you actually get on the webinar, it's fifty percent off. So that's a big value to be able to use it. And of course I and then a I make a plug obviously for being an affiliate. So you can make money and have it paid for itself. You know, you only have to share it with a few people and I guarantee you're gonna want to share it. So

Jordan Lally:29:21
Hell yeah. Absolutely.

Jordan Lally:29:35
No, for sure. And I I'm asking 'cause like I said, like I just love this high high ticket conversations about about ads. I I don't I don't run ads like for clients or even like in no I used to own an ad agency, but I I switched it for several reasons. But nonetheless, very familiar in the space. I think like you have to sell high-ticket products or services if you're running Facebook ads. Like you can't sell I mean, unless you're e com, but like your cost to acquire a customer is like ten dollars. Like the cost

Annabelen Hemelgarn:29:44
you don't.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:30:01
Yes. Yes.

Jordan Lally:30:04
lead in some freaking states it is like ten dollars. You know what I mean? So like that's not that's like lead, you know? And like cost per for like cost per registrant is essentially what you're probably should be optimizing for. Cost per leave one might say. What what what do you feel like that sits? Like ten dollars, sub ten dollars over ten dollars?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:30:08
Yeah, exactly.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:30:18
Yep. Yep.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:30:26
Well, because you're also doing retargeting ads, I think, overall. Like I think we're getting clicks at maybe four dollars, but then we have to retarget. It doesn't matter because it takes them a while to figure out what what they're really doing before they they'll go to it, but they won't actually sign up until they see the retargeting. So I probably am spending about six ish right now. Currently.

Jordan Lally:30:49
Per per lead or per registrant. Okay, not bad. Actually pretty solid. Roughly do you know like the like the metrics on that? Like cost per lead, the show rate, how many stay until like the last ninety ninety percentile at the ninety

Annabelen Hemelgarn:31:04
You know, since we just started again, I don't have the newest numbers anymore. So d I need to get that 'cause it was early on it was very low. so I think that skews my data. So I need to get it a little bit more consistent before I give you some good numbers for that. I'm excited because it's almost it's almost there.

Jordan Lally:31:23
But No worries, no worries. Yeah, thank you for for sharing on that. So what what would fifty percent off be? Are you typically selling the the four ninety nine at

Annabelen Hemelgarn:31:37
actually honestly, right now, they start off at the four the ninety seven because they don't know what they don't know, right? So they start off at the ninety seven, which is really forty seven dollars. and then they sh quickly realize I need more than this. So that's when they upgrade.

Jordan Lally:31:52
Got you. Okay, cool. Yeah, I feel like man. Daniel Fazio, I'm listing off all these names. I guess I consume a lot of content. I don't know. Always trying to learn. this guy named Daniel Fazio, I'm pretty sure he learned it from Alex, but I like the way that he explains it. He calls it like the low ticket to high ticket ascension pathway. So he owns a data a data software for like emailing or LinkedIn scraping.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:32:04
I I love that. I love that.

Jordan Lally:32:22
Whatever the hell you want to do with data, right? But for B2B leads. People didn't necessarily just want to sign up for data. Like, what is the purpose of you signing up for like a data provider? Because like you want leads, you want book deployments, like you want more clients, you want more revenue, right? So he instead of selling like a $97 software, basically, he still does. But the ads, the ads that he runs, it's very similar to your webinar process.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:32:24
Mm-hmm.

Jordan Lally:32:53
He essentially runs like done for you cold email campaigns with like the setup fee being I think 1500. And then depending on how many emails you want to send per month will determine like the monthly the monthly retainer, the monthly price. And he said that converted so much better than just saying, hey, we have this database that triple verify leads, like sign up for this. But because you're, for one, doing a done for you service, and two, the outcome is like more appointments, it's like, hell yeah, I I I I'm okay paying fifteen hundred bucks a month for that or or the or the setup fee, whatever the case is. And then he has this other offer. Like I guess this is where it's like low ticket, high ticket, right? $1,500 one time, like a few hundred bucks for the for the subscription. And then the higher ticket offer is essentially learning how to do paid ads. And like, but opposed to like them doing it for you, like you just like pay his pays for his coaching program on like five, ten K. I don't know the exact pricing, I'm just making assumptions here. But

Annabelen Hemelgarn:33:25
Mm-hmm.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:33:40
Mm.

Jordan Lally:33:50
Like the people who you can acquire way more customers on this fifteen hundred dollar offer, like this low-ish ticket offer, compared to just running ads directly to this coaching program. Right? So if you have a pretty good fulfillment process and you can actually deliver results for the first product, it makes the ascension process so much easier. Like that's how you can actually increase LTD pretty significantly, you know.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:34:04
Right.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:34:15
I one hundred percent. I one hundred percent agree.

Jordan Lally:34:18
So I imagine with the with the software that you have, maybe the upseller cross side would be like your your done for you solution with like meta ads, Google ads, SEO or anything else. Is that how is that how that would work?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:34:29
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And actually sometimes we will do it. Like I told you I'm a big fan of lead magnets. So we actually have a find your leaks first as well. We're testing that as well to just do a quiz first. Don't even talk about that that until after 'cause that's free. And we're checking testing that out right now. So I don't have any numbers yet, but that's what I'm thinking too. Just because again, you have to they don't know me from Adam and there's everybody out there. So how am I gonna be a little different? I need to make them realize that I can have a solution.

Jordan Lally:35:03
Absolutely. Like h holding the expert frame. Let's see. coming up on time here, let's talk about the future. In the next twelve months, what would you have hoped and are grateful for because you did accomplish said thing?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:35:10
Yes.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:35:19
Okay. So I want the goal, like I told you, 500 subscribers by December. So let's just say that's my date, December, right? I want them on there and I would love to be able to say that I'm helping that many people with getting growing their business and saving time, right? that would make my life so much happier. And then I would be able to then also feel like I can take a step back and just relax, right? Because at the end of the day, That is a system that is repeatable and we are building we're building the engine now. Because the one thing is I have a lot of done for you right now. Done for you takes a lot of time. So my app, I don't do it with them, they do it and we do a few classes, and of course I can have my team run the classes. So that gives my time back. And that's what I'm trying to teach everybody else. Is how do you get your time back? What do you do to get your time back and still be a business owner? So it would just Solve all the problems. Just like that.

Jordan Lally:36:20
No, I like that. No, for sure. And what do you think are like the necessary steps to kinda get there? Do you have an idea?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:36:28
yeah, for sure. Getting myself out there, one, which by the way is not my norm. So that's already out of my comfort. So that's great. getting out, telling people more, and then finding partners. So I'm in I'm in the hunt for really great partners, referral partners to really help them as well as myself get to my goal.

Jordan Lally:36:54
Okay, cool. and then from a I guess like head count and in revenue count if you don't mind, what would be the the goal? Is are you solo operator or do you have a couple of employees? yeah.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:37:07
I have a I have a team. I have a team. I have head of operations and a AI expert and then I I bring in I outsource a few things to help them, right? so yeah. So it's good good little mix. and I do have a salesperson, I totally forgot. Don't let me forget him. He'll get mad at me. So yeah.

Jordan Lally:37:29
That is very, very, very, very, very funny. never mind, not gonna make that comment. maybe off camera here. But Okay. So I assume we'd look gonna grow a head count, but more importantly, five hundred subscribers. What would be I mean for anyone interested, like what would be the referral percentage on that, the affiliate percentage?

Annabelen Hemelgarn:37:48
right now it's thirty percent overall. Like if you have the product, it's thirty percent. However, if I'm I'm looking for some s key strategic partners that are really gonna try and sell it and that I'm giving them forty percent. And I don't care how they do it, if but right, if they can get it in more hands, I'm gonna give them more money, right? But if for a person who's like, Hey, I just want it I want it to pay for itself and they're just gonna get me one or two, they get thirty percent. And that's thirty percent of the time every time

Jordan Lally:38:05
No.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:38:18
Someone pays and uses the app every month, right? 'Cause it's a monthly recurring subscription.

Jordan Lally:38:23
an app on your phone, it's can can I use it on my desktop as well or

Annabelen Hemelgarn:38:27
It's on your desktop mostly, but I actually can use it on my phone, but you have to do it through a browser.

Jordan Lally:38:32
Gotcha. Okay, clean. And then if they wanted to like actually see like how it works, where can they

Annabelen Hemelgarn:38:39
So they can get on my webinars and I'll g provide you a link for that. Or they can just reach out to me at ignitedesignonline dot com slash spark. S P A R K. just remember that, ignitedesignonline dot com slash spark, and they can get discovery call with me and just chat and I'll then share everything else with them.

Jordan Lally:39:01
Awesome. Okay, cool. well you heard it here first crowd. Go ahead and if you're interested in the in the software, in the product, making your life easier, you know where to find her. thank you so much for joining. I I had a fantastic time talking talking up shop with you. yeah, we'll have to have you on again. Thank you thank you so much for joining. Yep.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:39:10
Awesome.

Annabelen Hemelgarn:39:17
Awesome. Thank you so much, Jordan. Thank you.