Apoorv Dwivedi on Why Referrals Still Win Without a Referral Strategy

Jordan Lally:0:05
Welcome back to the High Ticket AI Assistance Podcast. Everyone, please welcome the one and only Mr. Aporv. A porv, welcome welcome to the show, my friend. How you doing today?

Apoorv Dwivedi:0:14
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on today, Jordan.

Jordan Lally:0:16
Of course. Now can you please give us a quick some quick context as to the company, your full name please, and essentially what you guys do.

Apoorv Dwivedi:0:26
Sure, sure. Yeah. So so the full name's Apurv Devetti. and my company is Fixer, Fixer Marketing. So it's F-I-X-Y R. and the website's just FIXYR dot com. we are a boutique marketing consultancy. We work exclusively with small and independent accounting firms across the US and across Canada.

Jordan Lally:0:53
Why did you guys decide to niche down and work with those specific firms? Cause very, very I'm glad you did because I I love niching down, but just why that niche specific?

Apoorv Dwivedi:1:02
Yeah, so so a couple of reasons. and and I'll tie the t them together in a second. But the first one is we practice what we preach. So when we work with our clients, one of the things that we talk about is a concept from John Jance of Duct Take Marketing called strategy first, right? Which is begin with strategy before you get into the tactics of execution. And when you begin with strategy, one of the things you want to be really clear about is who's the audience that you're Going to try to attract, choose the audience that that that you can help with their problems. so the audience that I picked was accounting firms. The second part of that reason is because I have experience in that industry. So I come from that industry. So I spend a lot of time in in bet in banks, Craig Unions, and financial institutions, as well as in large accounting and consulting firms. And I was running large marketing departments, national roles, big marketing teams, business development, comps, that type of stuff. So, you know, when I was thinking about where I was going to focus and that kind of strategy first strategic focus, it made sense to lean into that background because I had the experience, I had the expertise to be able to bring to other smaller firms that don't have dedicated marketing leaders.

Jordan Lally:2:25
I feel like when you can speak the problems of your avatar or of your ICP better than they can explain it, then the sale is just second nature or like them becoming a client is second nature. So it makes total sense. when you are helping these these customers or these clients rather from a marketing perspective, what does all that entail if you don't mind?

Apoorv Dwivedi:2:38
Yeah.

Apoorv Dwivedi:2:45
Sure. Yeah. I mean, so at the end of the day, the number one thing that most firms are looking for is getting more customers or more growth. so we break that down into well, how do you go about doing that? And I I I mentioned strategy first. We always start with strategy. We're not about just selling one particular service, right? Or one particular thing, right? There's a lot of folks out there that say, you know, you need to run just this one type of ad campaign or this one funnel or you know this one lead magnet or whatever. We don't do that. We're we take a holistic view of the business and say, okay, here's what you're actually going to need. And that usually breaks down into two areas. So they want more customers, but we'll split that down into the first one is building the reputation. Right. I I like to use the word reputation rather than brand. I know a lot of folks in the marketing space, you know, it's all about brand, but when you s when you speak with business owners and particularly accounting firm owners, like I don't want to get into this you know, really ambiguous discussion about what is brand and what does it mean and all that. When you say reputation, people get it, right? So so the first part is how do we build your reputation? that is a multiplier effect for the second part, which is lead generation. Right. So you want to generate leads you can focus on the lead generation, but the two work really well hand in hand together. and like I said, reputation acts kind of like a lever or a multiplier effect on lead generation.

Jordan Lally:4:24
What do you feel like, you know, looking over your clients' accounts, what do you feel like has been some of the best practices or best approaches for building a strong reputation and then piggybacking that off of just lead generation in in the space right now for what you guys do?

Apoorv Dwivedi:4:39
Yeah. So big question. and yeah. the there's no there's no single one size fits all answer, right? So and I think that's probably the thing that I want to be really clear about is a lot of times you know, people get sold a lot of, you know, here's the silver bullet. If you just do this one thing, this is gonna solve all of your problems. I don't believe that at all. I've worked with literally hundreds upon hundreds of

Jordan Lally:4:43
Sorry.

Apoorv Dwivedi:5:09
different small independent accounting firms as well as kind of small and mid-sized ones as well. And there is no if you just do this one thing, it's going to solve all your problems. That said, when it comes to focus on reputation and and how that helps, one of the things that we see a lot is to say, okay, if you're really clear about who's the audience that you're trying to attract, right? so maybe as an accounting firm owner, you're trying to deal with maybe it's e-commerce owners, business owners, or dental practice owners or you know, something like that, auto body shops. Okay, now let's take a look at that audience and let's see, okay, what where does that audience get their information from? Where do they they go, right? What associations do they belong to?

What blogs and forums are they following or are they active in? What podcasts do they listen to? Right, those types of things. yeah, what are the types of reports or research studies or other things that they're consuming, right? And we look for opportunities within that to say, okay, to get in front of that audience, how can we help you kind of build up a unique perspective on something?

That that audience is going to be interested in. Then let's go and let's place it in all of those places where that audience is listening to. Right. So first of all, you know, what it what is going to be that focus, right? What's something that you can take out there and be known for, right? and then second of all, how do we get you in front of all these places? And it could be things like speaking opportunities, it could be podcast guest appearances, it could be joint collaborations with other folks that also work in that industry, right? so so there's a variety of different things that you can do there. Sure, there's also stuff like social media and websites and YouTube and video and all that. That is all part of it. But the next step above it is okay, rather than waiting for people to come to you, how do you go to where they are, right? To start capturing their attention. So, so

Apoorv Dwivedi:7:25
Once you start doing that, and that takes time. They this is not like quick fix solutions, right? You know, this is stuff that in you know in some cases can take multiple years, right? but you start building that long-term reputation up and you start being known as the go-to expert for something, right? Whatever that thing is, and for that audience. And that then turns into people hearing you, people seeing you. and them seeking you out. So, you know, people coming to you based on, you know, I saw you speak at so-and-so event, or you know, I I heard you on this thing, or I watched these videos or or whatnot. generally by itself, that's not enough, right? That helps. So I said it acts as a multiplier effect, but when you do that combined with other forms of lead generation, then the two work really well hand in hand together. Because people will say, yeah, that's so and so firm or s XYZ person. And maybe not it's it's not maybe not top of my mind, but in my mind I've seen and I've heard that person before in different places or I've seen their firm name before in different places. And it just, you know, I I I f there's that familiarity. Maybe it like I said, maybe it's not even st stated, but there's that familiarity there and people are more likely to respond.

Jordan Lally:8:52
It there's like five levels of awareness with buyers, right? And you can't expect people to go from one to like I don't know I have a problem and I have no idea there's a solution for this to like I guess maybe that's stages of interest what I'm describing here, but you can't expect someone to go from one to like I've never heard of you to like

Apoorv Dwivedi:8:56
Yeah.

Apoorv Dwivedi:9:14
Right.

Jordan Lally:9:14
There's levels, there's levels to this. And I think reputation and always being top of mind for your audience significantly helps. What would you say? Kind of like the opposite of best practices, what would you say, you know, the industry does that are kind of your competitors that they do this and like you're like, why are you doing this? Like this doesn't actually work. Like we've tried this thing. I know it doesn't deliver results, yet this company is doing that. is is that question th does that question kinda make sense at all?

Apoorv Dwivedi:9:48
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, yeah, I I totally get what you're asking, right? So, a couple things, right? It like one of the things that I see everyone in their Is there's a whole bunch of cold outreach stuff that's taking place. A lot of it kind of being fueled by by different automation tools and either offshoring or AI or some combination of that. a lot of people are just doing it blindly. Like I'm not saying that it doesn't work, but there's a lot of folks out there that they're just you know they're trying to play the the mass market math game, right? If I put out a hundred thousand, maybe I'll get five responses.

Jordan Lally:10:28
Right.

Apoorv Dwivedi:10:29
yeah, in that type of like spam approach, like it just whenever I see that, I I understand why people do that, but it is it is such a poor thing to do. and the the numbers have to make sense for it to actually be effective. So, you know, if you're looking at getting five appointments a month and you're using that that type of mass market approach, you know, you you're you're Distribution has to be in the tens of thousands for that to make sense, right? in the end, I said cold outreach can work, right? So AI tools and insights, if you know how to apply them, right? If you know how to research buyers, if you're looking for behavioral triggers, if you're looking for right there's there's ways that you can get into where you can actually really leverage the technology and get way, way way more specific and applicable to the audience. And you know that that could that can definitely work and and certainly works much better. so that's one of the things I I'd say, right? the other thing is kind of going back to my comments around the strategy where people just they just try one thing, then they try the next thing, then they try the next thing, then they try the next thing. And it's just like throwing spaghetti up against the wall just to see what sticks, right? And They there's no rhyme or reason. And it's just because, you know, they heard this thing and it's like, let's try that. Right. Or they heard this other thing. let's try that. Right. They don't have a strategy for themselves. So if you're not leading with what's important for yourself, right? How are you going to market? Like you had do you have clarity around, you know, the there's it's a question that that I ask people, right? By order of priority, who's your ideal target customer?

And why should they choose to work with you versus any other option they may have? If you can't answer that question, you all the tactics that you throw out there are probably not gonna work, right? Like you there's there's some core critical strategy stuff that you need to figure out first, right? And so I see people just kind of trying a whole bunch of tactical stuff and saying, this doesn't work for me, right? Yeah, and it's it's not that those tactics don't work, maybe they do, maybe they don't.

Apoorv Dwivedi:12:48
sometimes people, you know, they haven't tweaked it enough, they haven't spent enough time with it, they haven't worked it enough. But usually it starts from more of a root problem, which is they haven't figured out the strategy piece for themselves and their firm first.

Jordan Lally:13:03
Absolutely, because people say that door knocking doesn't work, or people say cold calling doesn't work, or DMing people on social media doesn't work. But at the same time, you hear all these success stories like of people doing that exact thing, like cold calling, door knocking, DMing, emailing, and it works, right? So it's not necessarily that the channel doesn't work, it's the application into the channel that is that is possibly failing. Like so strategy could be one. Secondly, it could be like

Apoorv Dwivedi:13:18
Sure.

Jordan Lally:13:33
the differentiation that you have, like your offer, right? Like what you what you're actually selling to them. And you you touched on like sending hundreds of thousands of emails from other off offshore accounts or on like AI personalization. And I think because we we do outbound to be straight up with you, we do outbound. Like we're like in the trenches, we know it works, we know what does

Apoorv Dwivedi:13:37
Yeah.

Apoorv Dwivedi:13:54
Yeah.

Yeah, but but but you guys do outbound differently than the way I was describing it, right?

Jordan Lally:14:00
One hundred percent. Yeah. So nowadays everyone claims they use AI personalization and what we found to be true is like the less like personalized that it is, like the more believable and like the the the higher chances of the recipient responding because it's like, okay, this is an actual human behind this. Like a human wrote this email, not like Claude in this example. And

Apoorv Dwivedi:14:25
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jordan Lally:14:27
One way we like to personalize it is not by saying, I saw that you went to this college back in 2014 and that this company was recently raised seven million right for the seed funding. Like that's not what we utilize. We personalize it by relevancy. Like how like what we're doing is relevant to your ideal customers, to to your business. And in our opinion, when you do that.

And you create a a human feel behind that email, it it works significantly better. Thoughts on that?

Apoorv Dwivedi:15:02
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Right. so come back to your earlier point. it's not necessarily that the tactic doesn't work. the question is, have you figured out how to make it work? Number one, but also it may not work all the time for everyone, right? So so you have to have that clarity around okay, is it gonna work in your situation or not? Right. and I think you know, just kind of like how you described it.

Jordan Lally:15:03
Do it.

Apoorv Dwivedi:15:32
it's understanding what's gonna work with your audience, right? So, you know, if your audience is sophisticated buyers or if your audience is used to receiving, you know, five cold spam messages a day, you have to be really clear about how you're gonna cut through that noise and why they're gonna wanna listen to your message, right?

Jordan Lally:15:52
Absolutely. Are you familiar with the term like account based marketing? ABM? Do you guys

Apoorv Dwivedi:15:56
Yeah, A ABM, yeah, for sure. Yeah, b big firms do it really well in the accounting consulting space. it is it's a great approach. you have to have, I guess, the dedicated teams to be able to do it, right? is kind of what I've seen. the the challenges that smaller firms run into.

Jordan Lally:16:21
Yeah, 'cause sales cycles are like what, twelve, twenty four, thirty six months sometimes. It's like, man, like you have to really want to be dedicated. But it also makes sense, or kinda makes sense, if like the L T V or that A C V for that one client is like seven figures. You know, I'm I'm willing to wait twenty four months to land seven figures, like whatever.

Apoorv Dwivedi:16:27
Yeah.

Apoorv Dwivedi:16:36
Yeah.

Apoorv Dwivedi:16:40
Sure. Yeah. In and and in the accounting and consulting space, you certainly see that with, for example, like audit engagements. and you see that with some of the bigger ticket, what we call advisory services. So the comp what what are called compliance services in the accounting world. So, you know, everyone needs to file their taxes. You're not gonna spend, you know, three years tracking someone down to For a tax return, right? Like it do a basic tax return. It's it just doesn't make economic sense, right? But there are absolutely places where where it does make a lot of sense. And the lifetime value too, like you said, right? So there's one-off engagements versus there's the type of thing that customers come back to over and over again. And in the accounting world, you know, that could be bookkeeping retainer practitioners, it could be ongoing combinations of Bookkeeping, accounting, tax, advisory support, fra what's called fractional CFO support or client advisory services is kind of the the industry term, but it's basically kind of taking your your accounting function and outsourcing that. So fractional CFO, fractional controller, a term called FPNA, financial planning and advisory. So things like that, right? So those those are bigger ticket items and there are absolutely places where ABM account based marketing it makes sense.

Jordan Lally:18:08
Yeah, like I'm totally I'm totally for ABM, right? If the ticket size also makes sense. Like I'm not gonna spend six months trying to land the this account if I'm making not as much as I probably could. So I think if anyone is doing ABM, like figure out what you can sell to make it worth the six month or twelve month sales cycle. And that's kind of what we've been thinking about internally as well, not to go on that tangent, but

Apoorv Dwivedi:18:14
Yeah.

Apoorv Dwivedi:18:20
For sure.

Jordan Lally:18:33
From my research, it's it's very interesting. And I think it makes a lot of sense. Aga again, if your ticket size makes sense. Anyways, moving on. have you guys used that at all, or do you typically do other strategies or have other strategies in place?

Apoorv Dwivedi:18:47
Yeah, so we have definitely worked with firms that have ABM programs in place and they're trying to use that, combine that with the reputation building or other things that will supplement that. in in the accounting world, account-based marketing, like I said, it's you definitely see it at the larger firms. once you start to get into smaller firms, they often don't have the team size to be able to to support. that type of go-to-market strategy. It is highly effective again for all the different reasons that we talked about. If you the right ticket size and and you can invest in that. For for smaller firms, not so much. So with smaller firms, you know, we tend to focus on, okay, what are the things that are probably more likely going to result in shorter sales cycles, right? so who are the folks that are in market for your services right now or that are gonna be a good fit that we can start to narrow that down further with out requiring the investment of a big ABM strategy.

Jordan Lally:19:52
No, for sure. When it comes to systems that you found to work pretty well for you on the client acquisition front, I assume reputation is gonna be a big one. When it comes to Legion, do you guys make content? Do you guys have outbound campaigns, inbound campaigns, or I guess at a high level, what does that look like for Fixer?

Apoorv Dwivedi:20:10
Yeah, absolutely. And and the answer honestly is all of the above. So we will work with firms. We generally we start by putting in place a strategy. So we'll do an audit of you know what they're currently doing for marketing, what's working, what isn't, give them a roadmap on what they need to do to fix it, fix their marketing strategy, put that marketing strategy foundation in place. Sometimes we retool their core offer, right? How they present themselves to the market.

Jordan Lally:20:15
Nice.

Apoorv Dwivedi:20:40
their value proposition messaging. We'll get those foundational pieces in place. Then we'll work on a combination of three things. so that reputation building, right? That that's kind of a core thing for a lot of folks. So that involves not just content production, distribution, but there's a whole bunch of research that goes with it, understanding the customer, understanding the industry, understanding where they're likely to be looking for it, trying to get that placed out there. So there's that side of it.

But then on the lead gen side, we break it into two buckets, and one is referral systems. So within the accounting world, still the vast majority of leads come through referrals and word of mouth. You know, they see the there's studies that have been done by supported by the Association for Accounting Marketing, but it's still north of 80 percent of leads come through referrals and word of mouth. So we always start with referrals and having a referral strategy in place. Now the interesting thing is, you know, I said that number, it's still north of 80%, but when I go out and I talk at accounting conferences or do workshops and stuff, you know, I ask how many people have a referral strategy in place. And it's usually like a handful of hands in the room go up, like maybe 5%, right? So it it's a number one form of lead generation, yet most firms don't have an articulated referral strategy or program in place. So we work on putting that in place. And that can increase the referrals by 10, 20, 30% or more, right? Which is great. The challenge with referrals is referrals are unpredictable, right? And in in some cases, depending on the firm's growth targets, may not be enough to get them to where they need to go. So then we look at what are the other forms of lead generation that we can use.

And like I said before, there's no one size fits all, but it could be a search. So SEO or you know, people use AEO, GEO. We put it all under the same umbrella. For us, it's a single thing now, right? people are searching for someone that can solve their problems, right? And and how do you make sure that you're showing up favorably and they want to talk to you, right? So that's that's one thing. It could be paid ads, pay

Apoorv Dwivedi:23:04
Paid ads do work in the accounting space within certain segments and for certain types of services. They don't work for everything. They don't work the yeah, they don't work really well for those bigger ticket advisory services. they do work well for compliance work, so tax filing, even like small business bookkeeping, things like that. But

Jordan Lally:23:12
Interesting.

Apoorv Dwivedi:23:29
But yeah, as you get up more into the advisory space, ads we found just don't work extremely well. outbound, you know, we have done outbound programs working with firms that are that are doing it in a very sp specialized and specific way. again, it's not for everyone, so it kind of depends on whether it's a fit for that firm and the audience that they're trying to reach and if the numbers make sense. and you know there'll be other things that we do as well, right? So we've done variations of ABM using out outsourced teams to help put that together and run it. can work, not for everyone, fairly expensive. So you have to make sure that you know the the ticket size of the services that you you're selling makes sense, right? So so there's a whole combination of things.

I mean, th there's even things that we do, like kind of in the traditional space, working with firms around helping them put together strategies for trade shows and conferences, right? There's still a lot of that that takes place and they still get a lot of really good quality leads from things like that, right? direct mail, like actual physical mail, right? still works, right? Yeah, again, not for everyone. Depends on, the situation the and the math, right? So we look at we look at all the different available options and we say, okay, you know, what are the things that are the best fit for you? Let's focus on the things that you can use that will supplement your referral strategy, that will supplement your reputation building and put that in place and and help you then optimize it from there.

Jordan Lally:25:07
When you 'cause referral strategies i if you don't mind if you if you don't mind, what would one be? 'Cause I think like you said, from overall all industries like referrals enroll into one services like eighty percent or higher because that trust just transfers from the referral the referee who sent it over. and like you just said, new businesses eighty percent plus from referrals. So I imagine

Apoorv Dwivedi:25:12
Sure, yeah, yeah.

Apoorv Dwivedi:25:30
Yeah.

Jordan Lally:25:35
you have pretty good strategies or at least one one decent strategy that you're willing to share at a high level.

Apoorv Dwivedi:25:40
Yeah. So so when people think referral programs, sometimes their mind automatically goes to, you know, here's a referral code. If you pass this on, then you get a certain percentage. That's not what we're talking about. What we're what we're talking about is usually more how can you find the people that are working with your target customers and make sure they understand who you are, they understand your services, they see you favorably so that when they're talking to the customer. they can say, you need to go talk to XYZ Accounting Firm. Right. And a good example would be someone like a bank or commercial lender or someone in that space. They're working with a an end customer, a small business owner, and often they'll say, Okay, you need to clean up your books, right? We can't we can't lend to you, or we can only lend to you under these conditions, but you know, if you clean up your books, then we can the situation may change and go talk to this firm over here. They do a great job, right? They they can help do that for you. That's one example, right? And then, you know, we put in place like the whole program to identify like, okay, who are those other business advisors, banks, lawyers, insurance brokers, software vendors, different folks like that that are out there, then how can you build relationships with them?

How can you actually do it in a way that's going to be mutually beneficial? So they want to actually work with you. They're not just sending you referrals, but you're sending them referrals as well, right? So you create reciprocity. that's that's one side of it. we also take a look at okay, how can you generate more referrals from your existing customers, right? what are the different types of things that you can put in place with your existing customer base so they start recommending you to their peers, other businesses they know. there's also other things like, for example, even like your staff, right? Like what are different types of policies or programs you can put in place with your firm and your staff to give them incentives so that when they're out in community and they're talking to folks, they're thinking of okay, here's an opportunity to generate a referral for the business. So so there's so there it's it's fairly comprehensive, but but it's it's essentially

Apoorv Dwivedi:27:59
You know, there there's nothing really that's like rocket science here, right? But it's it's making sure that you've thought through it, that you've worked through the pieces for your firm, you've articulated it and you actually have a program that you're putting in place that you're following. Right.

Jordan Lally:28:14
Well, that's kind of I I think what you said is priceless. It's not rocket science. It's really just taking the time and thinking about everything from A to Z. Like actually thinking about it from a strategic point of view, saying how can we make the most of this? And maybe people just want to prioritize other activities in the business, or maybe they don't think that it's worth it, so they don't prioritize it. But I I love how you broke that down. Like it's not rocket science, but we just do it strategically. It up a lot.

Apoorv Dwivedi:28:41
We do it we do it strategically and we try to bring some discipline to it as well, right? That's the other thing. Right. And that's that's a tough one, right? And you know, I always give the analogy of something like fitness or weight loss, right? Everyone wants to get healthy. Most of us want to lose weight, right? and it's one thing to go out there and find the information that says this is what you need to do, which is usually some combination of eat less or don't eat junk and exercise more or be more active.

That's great. And there might be some nuances to that, right? There's different types of programs and et cetera. But you still have the dis have to have the discipline to actually put it in place and do it, right? And so, you know, that's the other thing, right? Is we also kind of we work with firms to make sure that that they have that accountability, that they are taking actions every week, every month to to put their plan in place. 'Cause that's another thing that we see with a lot of of marketing and sales and BD programs is a lot of firms will wanna just outsource it completely and they're like, Okay, well you just take care of that for me. I'm just like, you know, I I wish I could, but it's not that simple. Like you have to have some skin in the game. You have to have the discipline to be able to actually execute this. We can put all the pieces in place, but you have to help us to to be successful, right? Like yeah, yeah.

Jordan Lally:30:02
You're gonna meet us halfway for sure. I kinda have a strategic pricing question. Don't go into the specifics, please. But when you're thinking about onboarding a client, do you do per hour or do you charge based on terms, like a four month pilot program all the way up to like a twelve month program? Because I imagine and like you said earlier, you're taking a holistic point of view with these businesses. And when you do that, I mean y you can't really do a lot in like thirty days. You know, you know, yeah, go.

Apoorv Dwivedi:30:08
Sure.

Apoorv Dwivedi:30:29
Yeah. Yeah, no, no. And and that's the tough part, right? Is so, you know, when when I'm talking with folks, they have to understand like it's gonna take time to get results, right? and usually I try to come up with flat predictable pricing for them, right? we don't work on an hourly basis, we don't work piecemeal, right? We'll have people come to us and say, can you just do this one thing or can you fix this thing on our website or do this brochure?

Like if that's what you're looking for, sorry, we're not the the firm for you, right? we need to make sure that that you're looking at this holistically. But but we'll lay it out for them. We'll say, okay, you know, in order to do this, here's what it's gonna look like, right? So here's what your commitment looks like for three months or six months or whatever the case may be, right? And then they can take it from there. And you know, we'll have milestones in place. So there's clarity around what they're getting, right? and making sure that they're actually getting results. We've got different types of guarantees in place. There's also break clauses so they're not stuck in something for extended period of time. so there's all that stuff that's built into it as well. But yeah, we I I know from the firm owner's perspective that they need to have that predictability in place, right? And I 100% get it, right? So so we do that up front.

Jordan Lally:31:52
Yeah, I think predicting your your ca not predicting cash flow, but predicting expenses is like, yes, I would rather do that all day long.

Apoorv Dwivedi:31:55
Yeah. Yeah. What's my investment gonna be? What am I gonna get out of it, right?

Jordan Lally:32:02
For sure. And then I would love to end on a high note, you know, l let's imagine that it's twelve months into the future. What is one thing that you accomplish non negotiable?

Apoorv Dwivedi:32:12
That I've accomplished.

Jordan Lally:32:14
Or you the company. Like you or the or like the company together.

Apoorv Dwivedi:32:17
Yeah, yeah. So one of the things that we're working on right now is around the AI space and referrals. And I won't give away too much, but we're launching a whole branding program that basically takes thirty plus years of knowledge and expertise and insights, having worked with literally thousands of professionals Accountants, CPAs, bookkeepers, tax filers, CFOs, consultants. And we're we're building AI tools around that that folks are gonna be able to take and apply to themselves within their own businesses. so we're looking to get that into market fairly soon. but yeah, that is definitely something that we're gonna achieve over the next year.

Jordan Lally:33:11
That's amazing. Approve. Thank you so much for joining us, my friend. it was you're such such a such a great guest. We'll have to be back on here the next few months or so. But nonetheless, thanks for joining us, my man. It was fun.

Apoorv Dwivedi:33:21
Thank you. Thanks for having me. always a pleasure talking with you. You're you're a great host. it seems like we always have great conversations.

Jordan Lally:33:30
Absolutely. Audience, thanks for sitting in.

Apoorv Dwivedi:33:33
Okay.