How to Book 50 Sales Appointments a Day From Cold Outreach

Jordan Lally:0:00
Welcome back to the High Ticket AI systems podcast. Everyone, please welcome the one and only Mr. Atashe. Atashey, welcome to the show, my friend. How you doing?

Atishay:0:09
Thanks so much, Jordan. I'm doing well. How are you?

Jordan Lally:0:11
Good man, we're happy to have you. Now off off camera, we were definitely talking about some of the amazing results you delivered on behalf of your clients, which we definitely will cover in a moment. But to give the people like an overview of what you do and what and what the company sells and who you guys help, can you shed some light on that topic?

Atishay:0:29
Absolutely. So my name is Anu Sha Jain. I run HyperKey. We are a B2B outbound agency. We work with B2B businesses, specifically ones that want a high volume of appointments. And you know, we we send cold emails, make phone calls, run LinkedIn outbound campaigns on behalf of our clients. The goal is to help you get, you know, turn strangers into sales appointments for your sales team. So that's what we do.

Jordan Lally:0:56
And how long has the I guess that company been oper operable? Like running

Atishay:1:02
So we've we've been it's been six years now, you know. Six so we started six years ago. I went I started with cold email in twenty nineteen and formally the company was incorporated in two thousand twenty. So now it's been six years of us doing this.

Jordan Lally:1:19
That's amazing, man. Congrats on that. and I I'm just gonna dive right in. So some of the case studies you have are you're feeding one sales team in particular 15 sales calls per day. Now, without getting into like two specifics if you don't want to, but like how many emails is that per day? What are the channels that you guys are using? What does like the copy look like? What's their offer? What the hell do they even sell? You know?

Atishay:1:22
Thank you.

Atishay:1:44
Right. So those are very good questions. And you know, there's like over the years of doing this, I found that there's a certain type of B2B business that is ripe, you know, that is like the perfect opportunity for outbound, you know, for a channel like ours. These types of businesses typically have revenues north of two and a half, at least two and a half million dollars a year, ideally five to ten. They have a sales team that is hungry for sales calls, so they want people taking those calls.

And you know, they're doing outbound. Obviously, any business with a sales team, they're you know, all of your reps, SDRs, account executives, they will be doing their own outbound. But often these companies are missing a systemized process that can run a system, an engine that can run and distribute calls to these salespeople in addition to whatever they're doing. Right. So situations like these where we're booking 15, 20, 25 calls per day. for the closers. You know, this company, we've scaled, you know, we've scaled our outreach with them. So now we have days where we're booking more than 50 appointments just for this company. And these kinds of engines, they work well if one, obviously you have the sales team to handle those calls. And two, you have a large total addressable market, which means we can run campaigns using cold email, we can make phone calls on your behalf, we can reach out to people on LinkedIn, we can send connection requests, we can send in mail We can combine all of those channels to put you in front of as many of your ideal customers as possible. And this engine operates at scale. So the reason I say that these these types of organizations benefit from engines like ours is because all of your reps are gonna do their own thing. You know, they find someone on LinkedIn whose post they like, they reach out, and maybe they get a lead, they get a sale from it. But If you're an if you're the founder or the owner of a business like that or you're a director or you're you're managing sales the sales team, you want to make sure that all of your reps are fed, right? So you want to feed them opportunities, which is why it makes sense to set up infrastructure that does this at scale. So you asked how much how much outreach are we doing? Right. We're we're sending more than 50,000, we're contacting more than 50,000 people per day for this company across these three channels.

Atishay:4:00
Right. And that's and we do that for the entirety of the month. We recharge that entire TAM about in about seven weeks. And then we recycle that TAM and we hit these people again. So you need both, you need a large supp a large TAM, which means that's a massive supply of prospects. And you need a large enough sales team that can take those calls. And then we put together this engine that connects people from here to people from here. And then you know, from here is where the business starts to make money.

So those are the situations this works. And again, you know, not all businesses are a good fit because there's only so many businesses in the US that are making more than $5 million a year. Then you also need to be B2B. You need to have a sales team that's hungry for appointments. There are many businesses, very successful businesses, that have five clients or five customers, each customer paying them a million dollars a year, and now you're a five million dollar business. For a business like that, this system will not work.

So there's a few requirements, but if you're a good fit, an engine like this can absolutely scale your sales to the moon. So that's what we look for. And those are the types of businesses that can get the kinds of results you mentioned.

Jordan Lally:5:10
That's amazing. So you recycle through the TAM in about seven weeks. I know there's a lot of people out there that are like, you're you're spamming your list, you're spamming your list. I am in full agreement with you. Like, we're gonna recycle the freaking leads, bro. Like, and people think that aren't outbound experts, that they are going to remember what the initial email said. I'm like, dude, you get bombarded. A lot of people receive like five emails a day. Okay, so the fact that they the the fact that you think That they're gonna remember your one email is delusional. Like that's just not how human nature works. Like you don't remember the emails you got yesterday. So you're you're you're fine, right? You can email the same the same people. I think as long as maybe the domain looks a bit different, I'm not sure if you add signatures or not, we can definitely talk about that. But of course, like the copy has to look a bit different, right? Because if they deleted one email and you send the exact same email, it's like, all right, I now you're spamming me. so

Atishay:6:02
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, obviously. So so you know, when you recycle the TAM, the the the theory behind doing that is, okay, I reached out to you talking about pain point number one seven weeks ago. That did not resonate because obviously you did not respond to me. And when we recycle the TAM, anyone that responded, we exclude those. So we take care of those things. so the next time I'm gonna reach out to you, I'm gonna talk about my solution.

But with a, you know, in in in the context of a different pain point. So I'm gonna reach out to you with a different angle. the idea here is that you know there's two components that get two things that that need to be true in order for someone to respond to you: timing and resonance, right? So maybe the first time I reached out to you, the timing wasn't right. You were busy with something else. Or maybe the first time that I reached out to you, I was talking about solving problem X, but you already have X covered.

And my product can solve X, Y, and Z. So the next time I'm going to talk about problem Y, and maybe that will resonate with you. So the reason you cycle this time is not because you're dying to get meetings, not because you test for it, but just because different people in your total addressable market will react differently to different messages. So you want to make sure you test all of those messages and get all of those people that will that could be a good customer for yourself.

Jordan Lally:7:29
What are your best practices for subject lines and how val how dense, how many words are in the in the actual email?

Atishay:7:41
So I'll talk about both of those things. First is with subject line. Now, these are things, if you're in a super niche industry, you might be okay with violating these rules. But the general guidance is we like to keep our subject lines between one and three words, and we don't test subject lines at all. So we just create subject lines, thinking what is it that's gonna get someone in that space to open the email.

And that's it. And we do like we create 25, 30, 40 subject lines and we spin tax all of those. And all the emails just choose one of those subject lines and you know it gets sent. And these variations, I'll give you an example. Or if you have an industry in mind, let me just choose something. So let's say I'm reaching out to home services, right? Or let's say I'm reaching out to e-commerce. Now, if I'm gonna reach out to e-commerce, I'm gonna use subject lines that feel like they come from their world. So if I'm reaching out to say founders of e-commerce brands, I and let's say I'm selling them marketing services, I would use subject lines saying product collection, new collection. You know, if it's the summer season, then summer collection if it's a paddle brand. If it's a supplement brand, then I'd say, you know, so and so supplement type, subscription. And you know, so I'll use two words.

Both of them that come from their world. And when they see that in their inbox, that makes them want to click. Some of our variations, which are evergreen, are also saying something like company name, just their company name. That's a good one because people tend to click on that. Then we also we also try to use subject lines which could look like it's it's an internal email, right? So something like notes, no you know, like notes on and then something topical or category report.

And category being their specific category. So we keep the the main the most important thing, in my opinion, is keeping it two or three words so that you don't give away too much and still making it sound like it came from their world. Their world meaning either a colleague or the things, the words that they hear about often. And many of these subject lines, you know, people click on those because they're not sure if this is a sales pitch or if this is a customer's email or if this is a potential customer.

Atishay:10:05
Or, you know, they're just curious. And that is the whole point of the subject line. So we do a bunch of these. We don't split test these anymore because when it comes to split testing, we found there's very low ROI to split testing subject lines. We just do like a large a large batch of 25 to 40 subject lines, put them all in spin tax for deliverability reasons and send emails with those.

Jordan Lally:10:26
That's actually a great, no, great, great, great advice right there. I think the shorter the better for sure. And you definitely want to use industry language, like insider language, right? Spin time trying to split test subject lines, like you said, there's no ROI in it. Like they're gonna open it or they're not gonna open it. Like it's it's it's it's it's easy as that. But with the body, like you you can test a lot of different different variations with the body because that they're either gonna respond.

Atishay:10:37
Right.

Jordan Lally:10:55
Not respond, have a question about it. There's so many different things that could happen with the body opposed to the subject line. So with with with that being said, I like to keep my emails really, really short, like less than fifty words. What are your thoughts on that? Do you do you go longer, shorter?

Atishay:11:00
Exactly. Exactly.

Atishay:11:09
Mm-hmm.

Atishay:11:13
We test those for some industries surprisingly, you know, I I I don't want to admit it, but for some industries we've seen longer emails tend to do well. But yeah, so when we're testing emails, we like to these days, especially at scale, with you know, you're talking about that customer. So at scale, we have to vary the body a lot, like just for deliverability reasons because your email body gets fingerprinted.

Jordan Lally:11:22
Really?

Atishay:11:39
And even, you know, then even if your message was resonating with people, it'll start landing in spam. So we have to body, you know, vary the body of the email quite a bit, which then means that individual words in the email copy lose their significance because even if we found a winning combination, winning phrase, we can't keep it forever. So we zoom out a little bit more, especially when we're running whole email at scale, right? For customers like this one where we're sending millions of emails a month. We zoom out.

And we break our tests down into three categories. So we're testing the angle, the offer, and the audience. Those are the three big variables we test. So the angle would be why, you know, why am I reaching out of that individual? So something about my I'll continue with that marketing service example, right? I could be reaching out of you because I saw your ads. I could be reaching out of you because I saw a new collection on your website.

Could be reaching out of you because I saw that you don't have an abandoned card sequence on your e-commerce store. I could be reaching out of you because I saw that you recently posted a job. So all of these different angles, these you know, that's variable number one. Variable number two is my offer to you, which is what am I giving you in exchange for whatever I'm asking of you? My ask could be asking for a demo.

My ask could be asking for a call. It could be asking that you sign up, go to a link and sign up, create a free account. It could be asking if I can send you a Loom video. It can be asking if I can send you a case study or another asset. What do you get in exchange for agreeing to my ask? That's the offer. So the offer in many cases is I'll justify the value of the asset and say, do you want me to send it over? Or if we're getting people to sign up.

I'll tell people, hey, you know, we're running this pilot. We are offering signups exclusively to your kind of people, like ex people exactly like you. Do you want to sign up? So then they would sign up. Right. So that's the offer. And the third component is the audience, which is the list. Now, even with large stamps like this one, we still break the list down into small segments of five to ten thousand lists, five to ten, thousand people.

Atishay:13:54
Right. And these segments are based on the examples I gave you earlier. So these are very closely tied to the angles, wherein we'll find a segment that's advertising on Meta, another one that's advertising on Google, another one where they've posted jobs in the last three months, another one where their headcount has grown in the last three months, and a variety of other things. And then we reach out to these different segments using different angles. So specifically in the copy, the variations that tend to work for most businesses are short.

Like you said, under 50 words. We've had so many, you know, campaigns that are like 20 words, that's just one question and then a two-word call to action worth exploring. Those campaigns, we've we've had those campaigns work for seven, eight months consistently without making any changes for some clients. So short, if you're you know, if you're unsure, test both. And if you're still unsure after your testing results, just err on the side of shorter copy being better than longer. For some industries. like we ran this campaign for two medical device manufacturers for a company that in Ireland. This was a startup. And we wrote short copy. The client chose to, you know, they gave us copy that their sales team was using, and we split A we tested those. And every single time the longer copy outperformed the shorter one. Like every single time we would keep changing the short copy variations, but their longer copy outperformed the short one.

And the long copy had a lot of things, a lot of components that I actually advise people to not use. For example, pleasantries in the beginning of the email. you know, i it is my opinion that if you're if if you're a stranger, right, I don't want to hear you telling me, hope your day is going well, because I don't believe you when you say that. I know you don't know me, so you do not hope that my day is going well. You know, like you're just saying that. But those types of emails do well. So A B test this again, this is why it's more the most important thing you can do is understand your prospect, right? So A B test these things. For eighty percent of people, short is going to do well, which is what you said, you know, like exactly. I I I concur. But in some cases you might find out that it's worth trying longer copy as well.

Jordan Lally:16:06
Do you think longer comp longer copy performs better in like not a more professional setting, but like like the like the manufacturer or the medical device manufacturers? Like that's not a more professional setting than another industry per se. But I I guess what would be your conclusion as to why longer copy perform better in that industry versus like reaching out to an agency owner?

Atishay:16:32
I think it's because of the, you know, every industry has their own unsaid, unspoken rules. Right. So people people like to communicate a certain way. Even today, if you were to speak to consultants, you know, like people that work at McKinsey or Deloitte, they write their emails in a certain way. Like their language, their tone is different from how we write. I could reach out and say, Hey, if I could do this for you, would you be interested? a McKinsey consultant is going to read that and they're gonna find 15 reasons to not respond to that email because they're like, Who are you? You have not given me any proof. Why should I trust a random person asking me? You know, so they'd they'd find reasons to not respond. Whereas if someone sent them a longer email talking about talking in the essentially just to to cut the long answer short, it boils down to understanding how your target audience talks. Right? If it sounds like you're one of them, they will respond.

Which is why, you know, this copy from the client did so well, because they were selling to that industry for ten years. So they knew how they talk. And that copy did well. Now, obviously, if if your offer is so good that people are compelled to respond. And when I say offer is so good, you don't have to give someone a million dollars. It just has to be so believably attractive that people throw everything else out the window, you know, even if you don't talk like them, even if There are a few red flags. If the offer is so good that they are compelled to respond, then you will still get responses. And short copy does a really good job at conveying offers that are exceptionally good, you know, because you can put that in front of people.

Jordan Lally:18:12
Yeah, from our experience, having just one sentence is just that's just the offer and has converted really well for agencies and like depending on the type of revenue.

Atishay:18:17
Mm-hmm.

Jordan Lally:18:26
Regarding offer, what has been some Grand Slam offers for you and like some of your clients where it's like, wow like that performs really, really well, like better than anything else if you don't if you don't mind.

Atishay:18:37
Right. So we yeah, so I'll just think of all the offers, the the most successful ones we've had with clients. We had an SEO agency and they were offering, so they they said, you know, we're we'll do your SEO for 30 days and you don't pay until we start ranking. So you will re you no setup fees, nothing. You don't pay until you start to show up somewhere. Now this offer worked well. We got lots of responses, lots of meetings.

And now if if you've been, you know, if you've been in the SEO space, you'd start to wonder how would the agency make this work? Right. The reason they were able to make this work was one, because their costs for those first 30 days, they would keep it low. And two, they would get high commitment, you know, in terms of access to the website and getting the client to do a bunch of things. So they'd sign a bunch of people on this free offer, and a lot of people would sign up.

Then a few of them would just not submit the onboarding materials, which is which means the agency doesn't have to do any work. Right. So you filter out people who were not interested because they're not willing to go through the onboarding process. And the people who have done the onboarding work, the agency would get results for them. And now because they were interested enough to submit the onboarding materials and they're getting results, they obviously don't want to like, you know, when the when the money printer starts to work, you obviously don't want it to stop.

So this was very smart. And again, not every agency can do this because you know everyone has their own costs and a a structure in which they work. But this was an incredible offer. Then we ran a cold calling only campaign for another agency where you know their offer was 30 days, we'll run your ads for free. And you know, if you want if you want out in any of these first 30 days, no questions asked, we'll refund you. That's it. So plain and simple, no questions asked. And I think this agency was maybe able to make it work because of their sales process. They would get a lot of buy-in from like buy-in and trust from the prospects that they would actually on board. So this offer did well. Then we have another agency. This is a PR company, and they don't have like a transactional offer at all. They just talk about their social proof. So they just, you know, and they've done they've won they've done incredible amounts of work, you know, with some very famous names like celebrities, lots of celebrities.

Atishay:20:57
you know, ho celebrities, Hollywood celebrities, brands like the Rubik's Cube, Red Bull. So large names that anyone in the world would recognize. So with this company, our outreach doesn't even they don't have an offer. They don't have a risk-free offer or a guarantee, or you know, your typical Alex Hormosy style offers. They don't have none of that, but they just are so good. Like if you look them up, you'll you'll know that this company is legitimate. And I like to, you know, well after a few of these, after you work with a few of these companies, I realized that if Forbes were to reach out to you, asking you, hey, do you want to be on the Forbes Council or do you want us to talk about you? You would respond, right? So it it gets to a point where if the who is so like if the who is recognizable, like who is doing the outreach, if that's big enough, then the what and the how and the why start to become irrelevant.

Jordan Lally:21:39
Okay.

Atishay:21:54
Because you just respond because you're like, okay, they reached out to me. This is at least worth finding out what this is about. Right. So that's I I think that's the best offer you can have, which is, you know, if you're that's why a lot of the, you know, the sales advice that we see in this space that comes from companies like HubSpot or established brands, it doesn't work for everybody else because it worked for them because they have a brand. Right. Whereas if you're

Jordan Lally:22:20
Right, 'cause that was

Atishay:22:21
If if you're a if you're a six month old startup trying to run HubSpot's playbook, it's not gonna work for you because people recognize HubSpot, people don't recognize you. So yeah, like so th those are the three levels of ascension I would say in terms of offers. Free work, guaranteed work, or you're just, you know, so good like so much social proof yet that you don't need to offer anyone anything. the transaction or the exchange is just them getting your time versus you getting theirs.

Jordan Lally:22:49
like offers like that. I have many questions on cold calling, but I want to circle back to the second component you said earlier, which is the actual exchange, the offer. What do they get in return to the X? I have found that direct offers like hey, book a call here or do you want to schedule a time? Let's schedule a demo. Those convert far less. But the ones that do show up way way higher intent. People that do say yes have way higher intent compared to Can I send you a case study? Can I send you a quick loom? Can I send you this like personalized lead magnet or personalized asset? We get a lot more yeses on those, but the conversion rate from yes to schedule demo is not as good or or sh warm compared to a direct let's schedule the demo call to action on an email. What have your comparison or yeah, what have your analytics been on that, on that, on those two offers?

Atishay:23:45
Exactly the same observation. And I've often talked about this on social media as well, you know, because these days you see people on LinkedIn pushing, you know, talking about there's this whole trend of GTM engineers. everybody's saying use soft call to actions, use, you know, like send Loom videos, send case studies. And they use words like these offer sprint, right? When the truth is like, sure, it looks amazing on your dashboard. You know, like you said, there's you get lots of interested replies, but And and the the people that are usually talking about these, their goal is just to drive interest to replies. Because if you're a GTM engineer, you just want to show your client, hey, we got this I created this campaign. Look at all the green green here in the campaign, you know, all these positive responses. But the truth is, like you said, a very small portion of them convert into opportunities, like pursuing ops. And that's because a lot of people reply just because they're curious or, you know, they just want to see what you have. And Many times when you send them the resource, they don't even take a look. So we still run those kinds of campaigns, by the way. So I'm not opposed to those. But you need to be going into stuff like this, knowing that the conversion here is going to be lower. And even when people convert, they're going to take longer. So after you send them the resource, you'll have to continue to follow up with them. You'll have to potentially send them more resources or just

Jordan Lally:25:07
Mm.

Atishay:25:12
Chase that lead more than someone who just said, Hey, yes, I'm hungry, you I'm open to meeting you on Wednesday this week. Send me an invite. So it depends on how your systems built, how much more assets you have, how much, you know, your industry, again, you know, if you have longer sales cycles, you can afford, you know, if you have a TAM of 5,000 people, you can afford to just follow up with people forever. If it's only 5,000 people, you want as many hand raisers as possible. So you send them assets to at least see if they're interested and then you follow up those people across multiple channels. If you have a TAM of five hundred thousand people, I wouldn't bother with an offer like that. I would rather just have like the top three percent of the market that's ready to talk right now. And then seven, seven, eight weeks later hit them again with a different offer and see if that gets them interested.

Jordan Lally:26:02
Yeah, 'cause that three percent is constantly changing every quarter. Right. So with with a TAM like that, you're you have some good leeway. For the for the team that's currently booking fifty sales calls from your from your services, are they a SaaS, like mid-sized SaaS company? Are they an agency or what exactly is their business?

Atishay:26:05
Yep. Yep, exactly.

Atishay:26:21
They have so they have two products. They have a SaaS product and they also have a service managed service. So they do both. it's a combination of the two. Yeah.

Jordan Lally:26:28
Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Let's cold calling. That that's what I was gonna ask. What industries do you think are performing not better, but at least performing within KPI from still utilizing the phones? Because I've actually thought about doing that for us internally. have to get the operations in place first and like find the right talent, but it I come from a cold calling background. So I know it freaking works from a B from a B to C perspective, right? but we'll love we'll love your insights here.

Atishay:27:00
Right. So we have we have a small client, one of our smaller clients, you know, they're using one SDR. they're a recruiter. So the SDR just calls companies that are hiring for jobs and calls the people in the HR department, sometimes owners of businesses, and that works. We've seen marketing agencies are on a decline. We don't do cold calls to marketing agencies anymore. It's very difficult to get a hold of them on the phone. So that's not one I would touch.

The more tr so if you anytime we've targeted, we've run calling campaigns to mid-level managers, mid-level to senior level managers, those have done well. Right. Now with cold calls, obviously you have to get your basics right. Like you have to you know, get your get like use phone numbers that are non-disposable. Use something like armor to get your phone numbers out of blacklists, use a CRM, you know, track for you know, be able to follow up with people when they ask for a follow-up. be able to navigate around gatekeepers, stuff like that. But as long as you do that, most industries, depending on the title and the seniority, would do well. We haven't, again, I I will admit our experience with cold calling has been to very specific ICPs. For most of our calling, we we just do warm calls. So when people reply to us, we just call them on the phone to set an appointment. Right. With cold calls, we only do it if we know an ICP is going to be engaged.

And many of our clients, we do like very focused cold calling sprints if they've recently gone to an event. So if you attended an event, you purchase a list of attendees and those cold calls, you know, you'd make a hundred calls, you'd get five meetings a day. So which is a five percent meeting book rate. And that that's crazy, right? You don't you don't so y but these are very focused sprints. So you know, you you're like it has to be associated with something. And when you have that association, cold calling sprints do very well.

Jordan Lally:28:39
Ha ha.

Jordan Lally:28:43
Same.

Jordan Lally:28:56
So when you're calling these mid level managers, are you calling their cell or the business fellow getting to the cell? Okay, cool. and that that has been pretty okay.

Atishay:29:03
Fair stuff.

Atishay:29:09
Yeah. So the the cell again, I'll I'll give another tip for the audience, right? So before you start calling people, just use clear out to find out if you're getting a landline. So there's a tool called Clear Out Phone. run your numbers through that through Clear Out phone. Figure out if you have a mobile number or a landline number or a Google Voice number. Don't waste time calling landlines or Google Voice unless your list is tiny. If your list is tiny, then you have to do what you have to do. But if you have enough phone numbers, just Skip the ones that are Google Voice numbers or land lines and only call them mobile phone numbers, you'll have a much better connect rate. And when you're running a team of SDRs, you know, they get there's a psychological component to it when if they're not talking to enough people. We've seen that when when an SDR, even a good SDR, when they're not talking to enough people, when they do connect with someone, their performance suffers. So you don't want to give them not just not only are they wasting time if you give them bad phone numbers. their morale also goes down, which reflects in the conversations that they actually end up having. So clean your phone numbers just like you would validate your emails before sending someone an email. Clean your phone numbers before you make phone calls and only call the mobile phone numbers. If you don't have enough mobile phone numbers, I would rather the STR not call someone than just try and call a landline and then not get a response and then you know, waste time.

Jordan Lally:30:35
two quick questions. I really wish we had more time, bro. This is actually a really fun podcast for me. so do you leave messages? Or if they don't answer you hang up. You leave messages?

Atishay:30:38
Mm-hmm.

Atishay:30:43
On the on the warm calls, yes. If it's a cold call, no. It's like you know, if they've responded to an email and the message works only when so now with iPhone your tra your messages get transcribed, right? So if I say if they responded to an email, they'll just say, Hey, you just responded to Amelia. I'm calling regarding that. That's it. So you keep it short and you you just mention the email because you they have engaged with you on another channel. And doing this.

Jordan Lally:30:55
Thank you.

Atishay:31:11
They either we've had people email us back saying, Yes, I I I saw your voicemail and you know, yeah, I'm available on so and so date. So people see that. If it's a cold call, we don't leave messages because leaving a message is ten, fifteen seconds wasted. I would rather call someone else in that time. So you also you know, like again, just like call email, calling is also an efficiency game.

Jordan Lally:31:34
Absolutely. And then I don't know about you, but I have my phone's on do not disturb, basically 247. It's so peaceful that way. And whenever I do get calls, I have like the it's not a robo call protector, but it's like Siri or some AI thing that asks like who's calling. What do you say who it is? Cause I I learned from Cole Gordon and this other person that used to be the CEO of NEPQ, they said, Hey, it's just

Atishay:31:42
Yeah.

Atishay:31:48
Right. Yeah, I added it.

Right.

Jordan Lally:32:03
Like that's all they say, like it's just three words. Hey, it's just and they don't finish who it is. And because that because they're curious, like who the hell is this person, that tends to help with the like the robo caller protection.

Atishay:32:04
Yeah. Yeah.

Atishay:32:12
Right, right. We like to just say the company name. So, you know, their company's name. So hey, this call so and we we do something similar. We don't finish the sentence, but we just say their company name. so calling regarding company and that's it. We leave it at that. Right. So that gets people curious enough to want to return the call. But yeah.

Jordan Lally:32:33
That actu thinking about that, that actually would work on my phone. Like they're talking about my company, like what is this about? You know what I mean?

Atishay:32:37
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what we do. And again, you know, the one that you gave, that that's probably gonna work just the same, right? The point is keep it vague enough so that they wanna call you back.

Jordan Lally:32:50
Curiosity works in sales, man. Curiosity wins. like I said, I wish you had more time, but let me ask you let me ask this, man. for a new outbound agency that's just getting started, you know, with your vast amount of experience in case studies, what is one thing that you would tell them that would hopefully speed the pathway to success?

Atishay:32:51
Yeah. But

Atishay:33:09
I think it all boils down to being very clear in who you can serve, right? So if you remember in the beginning of our conversation today, I spent a lot of time telling you who we work with and who we cannot work with, right? And it took me like it's taken me these five, six years of speaking to all of these different types of businesses and working with different types of businesses to figure out what kinds of businesses work the best with the engine that we build.

Now I also have other friends who are running very successful outbound agencies who work with completely different types of businesses. I have, you know, I have a friend. He runs an agency where they book three to five appointments a month, but they exclusively target enterprise companies. And, you know, so so that's a whole different process, like a whole different ballgame. They're doing all sorts of different channels and their goal is to get you a meeting with Microsoft, right? So that's their engine.

Our engine is different. Ours is built around volume. So if you have a sales team that needs appointments, lots of those, that is what we specialize in. So if you're a new outbound agency, you need to figure out this there's a there's a spectrum, right? So here you have agencies that can deliver a large volume of leads, and here you have agencies that can deliver enterprise leads, you know. So these types of agencies work with businesses that have a small tab.

And that have you know they only work, they they only do seven-figure annual contracts or more. And these types of agencies can work with anyone that has a large tab. And you know, you could be selling anything from $3,000 a month to $30,000 a month. Most agencies lie somewhere in the middle because they get a client that belongs here and they get a client that belongs here, and then they try to fulfill for both of them, and then it doesn't work out for either of those clients. So client selection is the most important thing you can do as an agency and that requires you understanding what am I really good at. So that would be my advice.

Jordan Lally:35:10
Out of shit. Thank you so much for all the nuggets, the advice, the gems, man. clearly a knowledgeable guy. Keep working hard, bro. Congrats on the case studies. we'll have that be in like 12 months, man. Thank thank you again for joining us.

Atishay:35:21
Abs absolutely, man. Thanks so much, Jordan. Incredible conversation. Enjoyed it a lot.

Jordan Lally:35:26
Yes, sir. Bye, audience.