Google Clicks Are Dead: Gaston Kaufer Barbe with Toucan Insights

Jordan Lally:0:00
Welcome back to the High Ticket AI Systems Podcast. Everyone, please welcome the one and only Mr. Gatson Catherine Barbe. Gatson, how are you doing today, my friend?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:0:09
Hello Jordan, how are you?

Jordan Lally:0:11
I'm doing very well. Thank you, thank you. And I'm sure I I I butchered your name slightly, so really quick, can you can you give us the the full pronunciation?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:0:21
Yes, it's Gaston Caufer Barbie.

Jordan Lally:0:23
Awesome. Thank thank you so much, my friend. Now, my to my understanding, you are working remotely. You are currently on the East Coast out there in Florida, but the team is also remotely, but you kind of bounce back and forth between another country and this country, which or this country as in the States. which w which is the other country?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:0:26
No worries.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:0:44
Yeah, so I am based in the Netherlands. I've been there for the past eight years. Amsterdam is the city. And yeah, I'm for the last couple of years I've been developing the company here in the US. So that's why I come eventually to yeah, for meetings, events, presentation as well. So that's why I spent some time here as well.

Jordan Lally:1:07
That's amazing. And I know you also well you're the primary business well, let me just ask this. Can you give us a high level overview of like what you guys do, who you guys sell to, just some just some background on

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:1:19
Sure. So Tukan started in twenty eighteen in the Netherlands. It's a it's a Dutch company. and we are currently focusing on so our main avatar, our companies that serve other companies. So we we focus on on B2B. and what we do we basically install a system that through direct messages is mainly email and LinkedIn. we generate leads repeatedly, consistently. That is what we do. Once we sign up a new client, we basically what we do is mainly organic, so that is our main focus of of work. and we do everything related to SEO if we if you want to like comprehensively analyse the the the the broad term is AEO, GEO as well. But we also do social social media, things related to web design, email marketing as well, research.

Jordan Lally:2:31
That's how it started, right? It was the research or market research company and it kind of transformed. You're like, well, the market really wants this. Like we have the data, like we have the research, you know, proving XYZ. But let's actually take take kind of more action on that. I think that was a strong pivot. When you say you're doing email on LinkedIn, I assume that's like cold outbound on behalf of your clients.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:2:55
Yeah, so what we what we do is basically we define the pains in the avatar and based on that we craft messages we select a very clear target audience and then based on that is we message them with the with the yeah. It has a specific cadence, that yeah basically the idea, the goal of it is to sign up meetings.

Jordan Lally:3:23
Right. How important would you say it is to actually niche down to a specific avatar? Like how important is is that process so your messaging is actually dialed in? Because a lot of people love to just target everyone. Like when we have guests on the show and like no offense to anyone that was a previous guest and like this is your business model, but like I just disagree with it, which is fine. But like helping small business owners. Like that is a f Massive, massive target audience. You know what I mean? So whenever you're working with a specific company or specific client, I think it's better to dial in the persona, dial in the ICP, so the messaging resonates with that one specific avatar. But I would love your your expertise and feedback on that.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:4:15
I think that if you do not focus on one target audience, you will be to to some extent diluting your positioning in a way that it becomes very unclear for your target to identify if you're an expert in the field, how like what's the what's the depth of your knowledge? And that eventually will most probably lead to your potential client choose another company that is perceived more as an expert in the field. if on the contrary you want to cater everyone in the field, then there is a way to do it, but you need to be like a massive company and you need to have lots of specific messages for each target audience and different channels. So it's basically the same but times the number of industries that you would like to focus on. and in that sense, if you're an SME, it becomes impossible.

Jordan Lally:5:15
No, completely agree. We had the ex I I learned this from a a past guest, to be a long story short. But they basically said, you know, your it's like when you meet a really awesome like guy or girl, like romantically, and the recipient says, You had me at hello. And he said, We can take that idea. Whenever your messaging is like dialed in and it speaks to

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:5:16
Das ist schon.

Jordan Lally:5:42
one specific avatar, the recipient can look at your website or look at your marketing message and say, This is exactly what I need. You had me at hello. And I thought that was fantastic. Like you said, when you dilute yourself, the recipient, the potential client is like, they work with that company over there. Do they do the they even have case studies for my industry? I'm gonna go with the other company that has case studies in my industry as an example, right? No.

Okay, cool. So you kind of do have a lot of services, which is fantastic. That adds cross sale opportunities, upsale opportunities. Do you know like how many companies, how many of your clients come in for one service and you end up like cross selling them or upselling them into a different service to increase LTV? the kind of

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:6:34
So what we do, what we do at Tukan is of course everything starts with with an audit and with the with the needs, with the maybe the previous experience that they had in the past. So what guys have you tried and didn't work or it really worked? or would you like to give it a go? So at the beginning we are like very open to listen about previous experiences, which generally speaking are not the best. but So after that initial audit, what we usually find out is that they have a very poor positioning organically. So the website doesn't converse, doesn't contain the necessary information, they are not ranking for the specific keywords, they are not ranking on LLMs in a way that makes them be perceived as as an authority in their field. So it mainly Like everything that we do on that audit, it mainly falls down to okay, we need to focus first on improving the website, improving your communications organically, and then test some like lab social media, some house it's like, okay, no, we probably should focus more on email marketing. We really know who our clients is, so mainly like launching an email campaign, if we can narrow down and define the avatar and take out all the services that only add like mess and confusion, then email is the the the way to go. sometimes it's not very clear who the avatar is. So many companies think that they offer the same type of service that their competitors, but they are not perceived in the same way. So their positioning is completely different. But they like but if we do the same, yeah but they are perceived as premium of like better quality, they have I don't know, dozens of five star reviews and like no one knows you. So you cannot expect to have the same results because you are just in the same industry and in the same city, for example. So building that positioning is extremely key. I always speak about positioning and how this aspect is not only key but also deliberate. So if you do not

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:8:57
define who you want to be in your industry, then the market will do it and then they they will I mean everyone will put you in the box that they want to and it's usually not the best one. So in that sense organic communications, saying like very we are this, we do this in this way, and for all these reasons you need to choose us because we can help you. Is that we usually start with organic.

Jordan Lally:9:24
When you say organic, are you referring to I I guess w what do you mean when you say that exactly?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:9:30
When I'm organic it's like not ads.

Jordan Lally:9:32
Right, right, right, right. So okay, so when you're refining your messaging, my mistake. When you're refining your messaging, are you referring to like creating shorts on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, creating blog content, optimizing the website? Like what do you mean exactly?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:9:50
Great, great, great question. So this usually depends. So nowadays, like a k just an example. A couple of weeks ago Google made a huge update on their algorithm and how organic ranks is completely different than what it was like two months ago. if you would have seen the the the search engine results like only a couple of weeks ago.

Jordan Lally:10:11
Really?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:10:19
I mean clicks would matter a lot, even though they were rolling out for the last couple of months. They officially communicated that okay, clicks and this is crazy, clicks don't matter anymore. Clicks are like going down massively, so no one clicks. And the reason is that is for the Yeah, AI basically. You type in a query, you get the results, and the AI overview already gives you the answer that that you want, so clicks are not needed anymore. And now the the the purpose of having a website, a well positioned website, is works more like as a backstore that okay, if you want to deep dive in what we do, then you have all the information there. We will explain you in detail how we operate. in for example in the blog section we will analyze topics that are current to the industry in depth, but like websites per se, counting clicks, navigation in the website, that's dead. because people just don't care that about that anymore.

Jordan Lally:11:35
They'd rather get the immediate answer in AI overviews. I mean, to be honest with you, like I speak with AI overviews on Google or Claude, if because that's what I use over chat. nonetheless, I speak to that more than I speak to Google. And I think a lot of people are the same. I think because you just get so much more context, more depth of the answer. Like it's basically like immediate gratification to keep it simple, right? You don't have to read through blog posts to actually find the answer. But I think what you're saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the the better your website is positioned, like with content, with dialed in messaging, Google can pull from that, like scrape or pull from your website and put that answer in the AI overview. Is that essentially kind of how that would work?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:12:24
Yeah, you will s you will still be ranking on on page one. Of course, this is still a a a metric that we that we really care, but the moment I mean you should focus on that, but not on clicks. Not on okay, how what's the the the customer journey on the website? So which was the landing page and then everything that we are doing, like inside the strategy as internal linking, for example, that'd be a thing that has changed completely.

Jordan Lally:12:55
Gotcha, gotcha. What so what is the best path forward with the new update?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:13:02
Focus on strategies to rank on LLMs, understand what type of queries your target are are basically asking online. And the most important thing that we're seeing nowadays that is absolutely key is to develop a strong brand.

Jordan Lally:13:23
Gotcha.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:13:23
So being the go to, the the the no brainer option, say okay, like I don't know, we are looking for We're thinking about a marketing approach, so okay, go to Tukan Insights. See what they are doing on that on that field. and deep dive there because everything from that brand is trustworthy and they have like a track record. So you trust the brand instead of focusing on Yeah. Just ranking a a blog post, for example.

Jordan Lally:13:57
Got you. Okay. Would you say I mean building a brand is hard, right? I would say building a brand not that it's hard. Everything is yes, everything is hard. Relative, right? It just takes time. I think building a brand that people can actually think of, like Apple as an example, 'cause it's freaking easy, like that that that takes a long time. You have to really build goodwill with the audience over years and years and years. And I'm sure you can definitely agree with this.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:14:06
Extremely hard.

Jordan Lally:14:25
Like outbound marketing, however, like I I I come from a cold calling, door knocking, gunslinging background, right? Like go out there and go find some find some some some deals basically. So I personally love outbound. So I would love to dive in dive into this for a second. When you are crafting these outbound messages on behalf of your clients, do you have like a philosophy that you stick with for like your subject lines? How long? the initial email is, what you say in the initial email, what the drip sequences, like cadence, what that cadence looks like. Do you use multiple channels like LinkedIn and email? I'll let you have the floor with that.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:15:09
So the there are like each part of, for example, an an email campaign should serve a different purpose. So you were mentioning the subject line. The subject line, the the the main goal, the sole goal that it has is to basically spark attention and make you click on that email and open it. Once that is done, the subject line fulfills its job, done. Then you go to the email. as probably you receive like Thousands of emails per week that are basically copy-paste, and you can really tell because you're like, I received this email like a week ago. No, but it was a different from a different person. we see a lot of this, it's copy-paste, is what most people generally tend to do because it's the safe approach. Because if I received it, then it's safe. So I'm gonna basically copy and paste it and send it to my community, and that's definitely the worst thing you can do. but okay.

Going back to the point. Now I click on the email, I open it, and I'm reading it. That needs to be short, go straight to the point and human. This is most important. Like feel human. Even though you're probably using AI or you're using a system, make it look human. We are seeing like all these sam dashes over and over. And like no one yeah, right, like no one has ever written that in in that way. It's just like I don't wait though. Yeah, it's like you don't re

Jordan Lally:16:37
Yes, no, I I was pointing at you like, yes, I completely agree. No one ever in the history of freaking humankind has ever written with a random MDAP.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:16:45
And what is that? It's like it's so obvious that you don't care. And that's the most important thing that we that we that we pay attention to, that care. Okay, if you if I'm gonna if I'm wasting like five seconds to read your email, at least I don't know, craft it in a way that it resonates with me to say, Okay, maybe I should consider this provider. maybe I click on the website that's there on the signature, or I do some follow up ac action. yeah.

Jordan Lally:16:49
Exactly.

Jordan Lally:17:13
Yes. So for me, i because I I do outbound and I get like you said, thousands of emails a week and I always look at the ones that are like multiple paragraphs on the initial email. It's like, dude, I'm a busy founder. You are borderline crazy if you think I'm gonna sit there on a cold email and read your freaking three hundred word essay, bro. That I you know what I mean? Like like you said, direct to the point and skimmable.

So for us internally, every sentence is its own paragraph, and we keep the initial email about 45 words. Like you can literally read that in like, like you said, five seconds or less. I'm not the biggest fan of using perplexity and doing like deep research, like, hey, I noticed you were featured in this article in 2017. Like I'm not the biggest fan of that. What I like to do is create relevancy.

Relevancy meaning like their customer type and like the customer challenges that that they know internally that they have to deal with all the time. Or another angle is like their like one of the case studies on their website, right? Because I think that is like you look at the website, like you know what we do, you know who our customers are, you know their challenges. This is clearly relevant to us, right? so yeah, long story short, initial email.

Super short, 40 words, about 40 words. For your sequences, there's a lot of debate going on right now for cold email that you should just do one and done, that you should do a four-drip sequence. Where where do you kind of fall in that, I guess, in that category?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:18:58
Regarding the drip campaigns, I think they are extremely important. If you there are a couple of studies that basically state that around between email four and seven is where people are more prone to take an action, you know, book a call, reply to an email, or yeah, basically do the action that you have defined for that specific campaign.

But regarding the cadence, I think that the the the typical cadence that works on day one, day three or four, day seven, day ten or f between ten and fifteen and then a week later works well. I don't see the issue there. I see the issue in the in the communication. and in the and that the content of those emails and also the subject line doesn't build doesn't warm the lead in a way that basically boosts the the action. So bo booking the call for example. And I mean saying this is also very important to Define that wait, I'm having something okay.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:20:22
Can you listen to me?

Jordan Lally:21:53
Mm.

Jordan Lally:22:01
Yeah, not sure what happened, to be honest with you. Did I did I did you lose me or did I lose you?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:22:07
No, I have like a like a big message up here like on the screen that says okay the c the the the the ri the recording is like basically stopped and that everything paused.

Jordan Lally:22:19
That's weird. Okay, so I closed out all of my tabs. I should have done that initially, but it's fine. On my end, recording is still going. We're currently at 22 minutes and 28 seconds. So I think I think we're sh we should be good to go. Okay, cool. editor, do your job.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:22:29
Okay.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:22:33
Perfect. Yeah. Yep.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:22:40
Ha ha ha

Jordan Lally:22:43
Where where we left off, my my friend, is we were covering email sequences. You were saying most recipients or most potential le potential prospects, potential clients or prospects reply between email four and seven. Do you have do you have statistical evidence? Do you have data backing that up?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:23:04
Absolutely. There's a study conducted by Microsoft a couple of years ago. I don't have it handy, but if you look it up online, you will definitely find it. so that's a very when you think about your email campaigns, you definitely need to consider that. And also doing A B testing. This is also key. So trying different subject lines and trying different messaging as well.

A very important aspect regarding email campaigns that only the people that really know how to do it pay attention to is the warm-up of the email boxes and how do you do you yeah basically set the the the the settings for it not to land on the spam box and then get lost there. nowadays most of the providers have this included so it's it's very difficult for that to happen but it's also key to understand okay basically we need to check this and make sure that everything is fine because then we definitely don't want to be investing on on a on a on a service basically launching a campaign expecting results that at the end of the of the day are not working because the campaign originally wasn't set properly. So Yeah, based on email campaign, I think these are the key steps to to take into account and always like optimize and iterate the the messaging. You don't definitely don't want to sound like everybody else.

Jordan Lally:24:43
Absolutely. One of my mentors way back when he to to drive home your point, you don't want to sound like everybody else. He's like, if you want to be different in the marketplace, it's really simple, guys. You just look at what everybody else is doing and you just don't do that. Like I promise you it's not that hard. And I'm like, You're you're you're a wise ass for saying that, but like it's really it's really true. You know what I mean?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:25:05
Yeah. I know it's it's couldn't agree more, yeah.

Jordan Lally:25:09
no, we should definitely talk about deliverability, right? Because as as a cold emailer, landing in the primary inbox is probably the biggest challenge. Like, let's forget about messaging for a second, right? You need to make sure that your list is actually a proper configured list, that everyone on the list is your ICP. We don't only verify the emails once, we actually verify it twice because for whatever reason.

Some providers work better than others. We use re I don't know how to freaking pronounce this. I think it's Rune R-E-O-O-N. They're on Ab Sumo, way better than Million Verifier if you use Million Verifier. We also use V. First, we use Ryune because it's just significantly better. And then we double verify them with V million verifier. Once they bet once they pass both of those, then we enrich them, write the emails, and and move them along the way. But getting back to deliverability.

We only send 20 emails per sending email account. A lot of people say you could send 50. That was a few years back, but Google and Microsoft are cracking down on us, you know, we have to become wiser. so only 20 per sending email account. Spin tax. I feel like it's mandatory to use as many spin taxes or variations of the cold email as humanly possible.

There's something called fingerprinting. Not sure you I'm sure you know that term, like essentially fingerprinting. And if Google or Microsoft recognizes that you're just blasting the same email, like the same email every single day, like hundreds of times, like you're immediately gonna go and spam. and then one question I do want to propose is how long do you warm up the emails before you actually like let the campaign start?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:27:00
So the recommended amount of times depending on the if it's like a new mailbox with you go from three, four days to two weeks. It depends on the on the on the provider, but that should be the time. So once you have everything said and done, you definitely need to give this time for the for the box to warm up and then start using it in a way that if you do that then it's like this safe approach, and you will not get all your boxes banned and you have issues regarding the the delivery, which is definitely what you don't want in the middle of a campaign.

Jordan Lally:27:51
Yeah, it's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. You could have backup domains like on standby, you know. Do you use i if you had a if you had to choose one, Google or Microsoft, or do you use both?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:28:05
No, I use Google. I don't use Maps.

Jordan Lally:28:06
Use Google? You you don't use Microsoft?

Yeah, well I I mean for like like cold emails. Not for like your primary Yeah, yeah. Yeah, me neither to be honest with you. Google Google. I assume is this essentially how you guys acquire clients internally, or do you have a different process for that?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:28:13
Yeah. Yeah.

Ha ha ha.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:28:28
we are focusing on like a couple of channels. So it's that is one those are one of the the channels so through the system, organically as well. luckily also referrals work for us, but that is not a system, definitely not a system, so I won't recommend it. social media as well works. now Not nowadays, like actually for the last couple of years, I think that having an omni channel strategy is absolutely key. potential clients are everywhere and it's not the same I mean, like a really established company will not probably look for you in the same way a an SME in your same city will look for you. So you need to be everywhere and the way in which you develop your strategies and your communications should yeah.

Cater all of your avatars in the way in which they consume and look for your information. That's how I see it.

Jordan Lally:29:32
That is a great, great talking point because people in general consume media in different mediums or through different outlets or channels. Some people love to watch long form YouTube videos. Some people hate that and only have time for a 30-second short clip. Some people hate watching videos in general and they only want to read a long form post on LinkedIn. Or maybe they hate long form posts and they only read short form content on Twitter.

You see what I'm saying? Like there's so many different ways to approach the approach your potential pros potential potential clients. And I I don't I don't think too many people actually like dive into that, you know? Essentially what I think you're articulating is like an omnipresent feel. To be honest with you, I suck at it. Like I suck at that. But do you have a team in place that kind of helps you with that? Because I imagine that you being like the the founder CEO, it's difficult.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:30:01
Exactly. Yeah.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:30:28
There is there is there is a a team in place we use a lot of of AI as well. but like a th like a good tip of advice that I could that I could give you regarding this content and being like present in multiple platforms is that you need to regurgitate your own content. So if you made a video explaining a specific topic, a specific process that you developed, then you should convert that into a real For Instagram, for example, and for TikTok, changing the format. to a carousel and you take out this script that you said and you put it into like a into twenty slides, for example. you sum up the idea into one sentence and you put that on X. So you don't have to go that crazy and I think this is one of the most important points that people get lost and basically leads to strategy to like a dead end to some extent. so regurgitate your own content, adapt it to different formats, and always communicate the same type of information. So for that you need to identify the pain points of your of your avatar and then dissect that into all the areas that you can communicate above those points and then re just repeat the message over and over.

Jordan Lally:31:56
That's the most important thing, right? There is repeating, regurgitating the same message over and over again. Because it it is the same problem. Like people are going through the going through this exact problem over years and years, like throughout life, essentially, right? The problem that I have is like, dude, I just said this like a month ago. Why do want to say it again? But no, like people need to be reminded more than they need to learn about the thing, right? it's very interesting.

I follow Alec Thermozzi, the the the purple book guy back here, and he's stellar at repeating the same core message, but in different ways. Like a different story, same message, or like a different, I don't fucking know, but a different something, but the same message. You know what I mean? And that's that takes skill and like creative creative ability, you know? So kudos to him, whatever. With I guess who would you describe or who would you say is is best suited.

For the the type of work that you guys do, the type of services that you guys provide.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:32:59
Like in terms of ideal client or

Jordan Lally:33:02
Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:33:04
so I would say definitely a company that of course caters to other companies that there is a voice that And a face, of course, that is capable and wants to lead that communication. So founder led communication I think is absolutely key nowadays. Let me make a like a short parenthesis here. People trust in people way more than they trust on brands. Brands are here to sell to us whilst listening the same thing from a person is completely different.

And then you have the backup brand that that is very strong. But founder led communication I think is absolutely key.

And in that sense, yeah, we have worked with many, many industries. Like from you have it in education, you have it in real estate, you have it in fashion, you have it in independent professionals like law firms, artists. all these like communic so we have a very strategic approach to the communications.

And so in that sense it's very tailor-made. But yeah, at this point, like after eight years, we have worked with many, many industries in many markets as well. We work with a bit of a massive project in Africa, for example. I like never in my mind I I thought I would do that. But Yeah. So if I have to narrow down, as I said at the beginning, I'm focused now on the on the American market in Florida.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:34:57
is the main market that that we are interested in in in developing. And here you have real estate, FinTechs you have as well. And there is a very strong sort of influencer community, communication, content creator market that is also growing massively. So Those are the main markets that are here and for obvious reasons the ones that we are more interested now.

Jordan Lally:35:33
Got you. And correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding, you're working with businesses in your own backyard. In in Miami. Or not Miami, in Florida, excuse me. But you're not you're not okay, you're not working nationally across across the states. Interesting. So the meetings that you said that you go to earlier on the podcast here, I assume those are business conferences or like just business meetings in general?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:35:58
Th I I went to business meetings and I also went to yeah, events. There were there were a couple of events that yeah, I was invited to. So when they're you know it's it it's always I have this attitude that I I'm always like learn learning and especially now that everything is changing so fast and i i in the US you have like really, really smart people that are in many cases driving that change. So if you get to

Jordan Lally:36:16
Keeps it. It's good.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:36:27
meet with them I was lucky enough to meet with some of like geniuses in my in my view.

Like having a having a conversation with them clarifies everything in like a couple of sentences that you were probably doubting or researching, like having like two sentences from a guy that is actually doing it and and developing is like, no, you should focus on A B C because XYZ. It's like mind blowing. Yes, of course it's that way. So yeah.

Jordan Lally:37:02
Sorry, it's so funny because I I don't get into debates, but I love people that just give advice freely that really aren't in the position to give advice. Like I can give advice on like a few things in life, but if a topic is on the table and I'm discussing it with my family, friends, whatever, I'm like, why don't we just go ask somebody who has the thing that we want and see what the hell they say.

Like they're probably gonna have way more experience, way more, and way better advice than me, you, or you are ever gonna give to this person over here. Like, you don't know, you don't know it, bro. Like, stop pretending that you do. Now, I'm not saying you're not allowed to have opinions, but I don't think you should be so concrete in your advice if you've never done the damn thing before. And your immediate reaction of like, dude, that makes so much sense. And the reason why it resonated with you, I think.

It's because the dude had the thing. Like the dude already achieved whatever the hell the thing was. So for him to articulate how not easy, but how simple the process was, it's like, duh, that makes sense. Like I he's done it before. You know what I mean? I get excited sometimes, but yeah.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:38:03
Exactly.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:38:10
Exactly. Exactly. No, but it's exactly like that and that is one of the in my view, one of the most probably the most like the biggest problem in in in our industry. There was a saying when I was studying at at uni a couple of years ago, and it's like assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups. So don't assume. Do the research, talk to the right people.

And then figure out how all that information applies to your case and then create that Frankenstein and okay, give it life. But yeah, it's right there. The information is right there if you look at it.

Jordan Lally:38:53
Absolutely, that's smart, man. That's smart. You know, networking is I I think people really I'm just gonna say it, fuck it. I think people really miss shaking hands. I think people miss in-person meetings. I think a lot of the business that we conduct nowadays is over Zoom or a Google Meet or Riverside, whatever. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing, nothing wrong with that. But again, I think people miss shaking hands. So The networking, I guess, strategy, if you don't mind, that you have, like the mindset that you have when you walk into these business conferences or these business meetings, is there a is there an approach that you have? Is there an expectation that you put on yourself? I I guess what what's the game plan?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:39:40
it depends on the type of event, but my expectation is okay, I'm gonna I I I talk to everyone there. And the idea is to okay what can I extract, what can I learn, what can I take out from this day that I'm probably gonna spend at this event that then I can implement that is like really valuable. And then it it I mean it's like life. You you have like all sorts of people. There are people that are trying to sell you something. There are people that are probably have no clue and this is the first event that they ever go, so they are like probably standing at the wrong stand. Or they are others that are listening to there is a a talk going on that is like very basic. So you have lots of different levels of attendees at these events that you definitely need to okay, you dissect and say, Okay, I'm attending this event because I want to meet with these kind of companies, these kind of people, and then based on this I will be able to have a hopefully much clearer understanding of what I want to to implement, to develop. But the key for that is you need to do the research before going to the event. So what's who's gonna be talking, what are the companies there? okay, does it make sense for me to go the whole day, or maybe just going there for a couple of talks and then meeting with these people would be enough.

If you go there like blindly, you will not extract the the most of it and it's probably gonna be like a waste day.

Jordan Lally:41:17
It's like a marketing strategy in a way. I mean, if you go if you fly if you fly blindly, the marketing strategy's probably not gonna go in your favor. for me personally, I I definitely agree. I think well, two things. Shake as many hands as possible. I know the real Brad Lee, another podcaster, he says the more hands you shake, the more money you make. And I guess he's partially right. but the second thing is, I guess give.

You know, like try to give value or like give knowledge away. Like people there are there to learn. So by you withholding information, not that you're an asshole, but like give the people what they want, you know, they're here to learn. And I think if you do if you do those two things, I think you'll be okay. Personally, I've always had the biggest revenue spike at in person conferences. Like it's like a w like influx, right? And then like obviously it tapers off, but y in in person conferences are so much fun, dude. Like I it's always always such a great time.

Let's see. I guess looking forward over the next twelve months, what is one thing you would have hoped to achieve?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:42:25
the goal is to continue developing company the good the company here in the US, continue yeah, making the necessary tweaks to all of our communication channels to yeah, get better leads, reach more people, and then based on that, like implement that to all our clients. Nowadays we are going through like I've never seen anything like this in my almost twenty year career at this point. Everything is changing so fast. There are so many new tools. There's like what we used to do, as we were talking moments ago about the the the organic and the clicks on on on Google. everything is changing so fast that if you Blink basically, then something would have changed. There would be a new update on Cloud, a new a new one on ChatGPT, Gemini has changed something. Google, the the the the the mother of all the digital marketing, if you wanna call it, has made massive changes. ads work in a different way than what they were doing a couple of years ago with Andromeda. So it's a it's a very agitated time for marketers in terms of keeping keeping updated to to the current changes in the field. The goal is to continue growing the the the company, catering our clients in the best possible way and really understanding and adapting to the changes that we are currently navigating.

Jordan Lally:44:11
Yeah, I I cannot agree more. I feel like every day there's a new update with some LLM or some marketing channel like LinkedIn, Facebook or or even Google. very knowledgeable. I I really want to say thank you for for hopping on, man. It was really, really fun talking to you. Last question here. If they wanted to explore your work further or at least connect with you, pick your brain, where could they find you?

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:44:35
So either the the the company. So Tukan Insights, we have a website, we we are we are on social media. Tucan is like Tucan like the bird and insights audio myself. Again gonna repeat my name. Gaston, Kaufer Barbe. Gaston is like the bad guy from the beauty and the beast, that's easy. And then Caufer Barbe is just K A U F E R B A R B you can find me also on social media, you can find me on LinkedIn as well. So yeah. Send me a message, let's connect, let's keep on talking marketing and see how we can help you.

Jordan Lally:45:14
Absolutely. And we'll definitely make sure to leave your info in the show notes as well. But nonetheless, thanks for hopping on, brother. Audience, talk soon.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:45:18
Fantastic, you know.

Gaston Kaufer Barbe:45:21
Pressure.