AI Amplifies Doctors, It Doesn't Replace Them: Samy Allam, Dextro Medical

Ryan:0:01
Welcome back to the [High Ticket AI Systems] podcast where we talk about all things client acquisition, scaling, marketing sales, AI, and everything else in between. Everyone, please welcome the one and only Sami Alam, founder and CEO of Dextr Medical. Sami, welcome to the show, my friend.

Samy Allam:0:20
Thank you. Thank you very much for having me today.

Ryan:0:23
No, appreciate it. Thank you for coming. for the people at home who may not already know, would you please give them some background on exactly who you are and what your company, Dextro Medical, really does at its core.

Samy Allam:0:37
I am Samuel, associate professor of medicine and founding faculty of quality management and clinical data and documentation integrity. I started doing that roughly 15 years ago as a leap of faith from the practice of medicine. I worked in acute care settings and I found better ways of capturing the acuity and risk. in acute inpatient care. and therefore I found it from that prospectus, I found the the extra medical. with the belief that patient care deserves more attention during the time of hospitalization. what we do at Dextromedical, we founded the company based on the fact that we wanted to better care for the patient, better capture of the documentation risk, better capture of the acuity and patient outcomes. what we do is basically you wanted to make sure that everything that is documented is a digital reflection of the patient care. So we have a patient and we have the care that they take, the the physician, the treatment plan, the the short summaries, and then there is the digital copy. And oftentimes the digital copy is not really a reflection of the patient care.

And so therefore we wanted to make sure that the reported data is really captured on a concurrent basis, that the physician, the patient, and the regulatory buddies are all on the same page when it comes to the reporting and the visualization of what the patient care entails. I know it's it's a little complex, but maybe we can unwind a little bit more in the conversation.

Ryan:2:21
Yeah.

Ryan:2:27
Yeah. Sammy, help help the audience really break it down and understand where where you initially got the idea for previously, 'cause you were a practicing clinician, right? You you you you had your own practice and then you you transitioned. What was that point of transition and like what was the gap you saw that that made this the the leap for you?

Samy Allam:2:49
I think it was when we realized as a team, that formed Dextromedical that data and outcomes often do not communicate and every practitioner in acute care or ambulatory setting is working in their own

Samy Allam:3:09
And so we needed to zoom out and focus on the population that we serve more so. And we wanted to zoom out and focus on how can we systematically solve issues in our healthcare industry in the United States within the United States. At times when we zoom in and work with our individual patients, it's hard to see the big picture.

And so we wanted to simplify solutions and work prospectively on patient populations rather than just an individual patient encounter.

Ryan:3:44
Yeah. And i in terms of that service you have now developed and it it's been through obviously I had notes here but my screen isn't isn't working. Apologies. When did when did you first found Dextromedical? How how long ago did did you make that leap?

Samy Allam:4:01
We did that in twenty seventeen. and yes.

Ryan:4:04
twenty seventeen.

Yeah, please el elaborate.

Samy Allam:4:10
And what we were trying to do is basically find workflows, innovative solutions pertaining to clinical data and and documentation integrity. And then we expanded that into human resource solutions, consulting, and understanding the workflow of acute care setting design it to where it's it it fits the acute care partners that we work with.

Ryan:4:20
Hm.

Ryan:4:35
On that vetting process, Sammy, what what typically determines the the right fit for you guys? Like what needs to be true about that partner or hospital for for you to do your best work?

Samy Allam:4:48
I feel that most of the acute care settings or hospitals that we work with, they had a clear opportunity to capture of treating their sick and vulnerable population the way they should be treated, the desire to improve and also outcomes that has that room.

Ryan:5:00
Mm.

Samy Allam:5:07
And so when we do and we integrate we interface with their systems, people and process. we figure out ways to make that room grow from within. So we wanted them to improve, we wanted their resources to we want it to be a resource for them, but more so we wanted to work with their internal capabilities. 'Cause each organization has their own capabilities of people, the the staff that they work with. process and of course the technology that they use. and we wanted that to be a collaborative effort and integrated process to to improve the patient outcome as well.

Ryan:5:41
Yeah. And

Ryan:5:50
Hmm, of course. And given that you you started this back officially in twenty seventeen, the the world has moved leaps and bounds in in technological advancement since then. What have you seen specifically inside this industry and and how has that shaped now how you service and really provide this?

Samy Allam:6:11
That's a good question, Ryan. And two milestones that I think it was very important to see and capture. First, the COVID nineteen pandemic. And then the second milestone that I think impacted our practice of data capture and reporting was the AI revolution, I would say. The ability to capture that skill set the the artificial intelligence bring to every level of patient care I would say from when the patient steps in into the hospital up until they get the shorts. So the COVID nineteen pandemic. COVID nineteen really has skewed all data reporting towards a severe outlier. we see patients that come to the hospital with severe illnesses and it it's an on the first insult. First insult in medicine means the first time they get the disease. And it shoots on the severity from zero to ten on a scale of zero to ten or zero is the least severe illness and ten is the most severe illness and we see patients that have no pre existing conditions presenting with severe symptoms.

And so that put the data and the reporting at that severe outlier.

Ryan:7:30
Hm.

Yeah.

Samy Allam:7:34
And so w with that we had to work with hospitals, acute care settings that they didn't really have the resources to treat such severity.

And I think the second milestone was after the pandemic has concluded, slowly but surely. 'cause it w there was no like a cut deadline where the pandemic has stopped. It still has been dragging it.

Ryan:7:58
Would have been nice, but it drags its feet, doesn't it?

Samy Allam:8:03
Yes, it did. Yeah, it sure did. And then the artificial intelligence presented itself.

Ryan:8:10
Yeah. So j just going back to what you mentioned about obviously COVID happening and the the outliers that presented themselves on that scale of severity without a proper system in place, what is the consequence of that for for these these providers? Like how extreme, how severe does does this get?

Samy Allam:8:33
I think the what was happening is the capture in real time of that severity was not existing. patients come in, they get the treatment, they get the stabilization effort, and then they get the charge, the other patients get treated and get the charged and administration and the hospital collaterals, the services horizontal and vertical, inside the hospital setting was not really capturing the acuity in real time. and so therefore when they look back into what the hospital needed at the time was So there was a lesson to learn here. The lesson was we need to capture the the QAT in real time of illness, capture the comorbidities in real time, the treatments, the socioeconomic impacts, social determinants of health, so that we have the resources.

Ryan:9:32
Can can I ask on on that piece, specifically capturing the data, so so the audience and I as well can really put this into a visual understanding. What what does that capture look like? Because there's so much data that that is going to be, you know, co influencing all the other pieces. How do you go about sorting that and and pr y you know displaying that in a way that's that's easier to comprehend?

Samy Allam:9:58
Imagine you you have a you have a bridge with a lot of people walking on on top of that bridge, okay? And and let's say that bridge carries a thousand person. And and you take a try to take a photo of a picture from afar, can you see the details of that person, their face, their facial expressions, their feelings? Absolutely not.

Ryan:10:05
Mm.

Samy Allam:10:24
AI and if it's operating in it on its highest potential, then that would give you more information about this patient, the time, the place, fr the AI, healthcare AI prospect their vulnerabilities, the pre-existing conditions, their prior treatment plans, how that imposes risk on this hospital his this hospitalization as opposed to the prior hospitalization. and so that's what AI provides us, that level of details and that type of response.

Ryan:11:02
How did you bridge that gap? Because obviously 2017 was an age where AI still existed. I had a guest on the other day, he essentially revealed to me that AI has existed since 1971, but it just hasn't been at its capability to really provide value in the way it does today. So before AI was as advanced as it is right now, how how did you go about capturing that data? And was it all manual or what did that look like previously?

Samy Allam:11:30
So we embarked on a journey to perform and produce 22 utility patents. US utility patents entail workflows and ways of improving data capture and reporting. We understand that there was relationships between the data's presentation and outcome.

But we wanted to make sure that we dwell and navigate through how these data can impact patient outcome in what sequence. AI, without dwelling in details, AI has helped us work that dilemma and also navigate ways of fine-tuning the data on real time. charge after the patient gets dish from the hospital and leaves. obviously it leaves some what we call it in medicine the late look bias. So you look back into the data and you figure out that there is something missing and it mess up the whole entire sequence. We do that in real time.

Ryan:12:31
Yeah.

Ryan:12:39
Can you explain how does that how does that work particularly and and what's like what's the biggest consequence of not capturing that data in real time?

Samy Allam:12:50
When patient is discharged, oftentimes all that data and outcomes get reported late. Let's just say a patient has heart failure, went into the surgery and that heart failure was not really specified, for example. and that specificity impacts obviously the survival rate of that surgery and the readmission risk. whether this patient gets discharged and readmitted to the same patient with the same cause. And so we wanted to make sure that the physician understand that if that's a risk that needs to be specified, it's available for them in real time to input that information. and that is just not replacing the physician's voice by any chance. It's kinda amplifying his powers. of capturing comorbidities and treating the patient outcome.

Ryan:13:49
so key and again this this reminds me of the conversation I had another day where we were speaking about AI and the fact that a lot of people have the fear that it's here to replace you know human nature but the reality is from from what you're explaining this this is just another example of how how AI has symbiotically enhanced you know what we're able to do as humans, clinicians, physicians and and really be able to leverage it as a tool rather than than a replacement.

How how has that influenced the the rest of your team and I guess like what what role does AI play right now in how you operate as a business and where do you still leverage people as as people?

Samy Allam:14:36
So we spoke about the people, process, and technology, right? And obviously that dynamic has to be working in tandem with what our clients' expectations are. oftentimes some education needs to take place internally and with our clients, some explanation, and this is where the consulting part of our service kicks in of understanding why, the when,

Samy Allam:15:10
your organization and when is the timing because timing is a very valuable asset. obviously the hospital in acute care is short period of time where decisions have to be made and oftentimes if that time deadline is missed then that whole entire outcome is being changed. and so from that perspective we carry that backwards to our team and forward forward and backwards.

Across my organization to make sure that okay, well, we understand how to implement that, but we want to take the client's feedback, and the every hospital, every client has different ways of processing things, and the nature of the patient presenting to them is really different. And it's been a learning process. and now that we have navigated that way.

Some benchmarks that we ended up publishing those case studies. I published that personally in a book, The Invisible Patient. the way we do it. It came out in April of 20 This is basically it it's in a reverse way. Yeah, it came in April of this year, 2026. And what we really wanted to show

Ryan:16:20
Or that. Mm-hmm. When did that book come out?

Ryan:16:31
Nice. Yeah.

Samy Allam:16:39
The impact of that on each patient, the work we do. it's available on Amazon and you can find it in Barnes and Novel, but we want it Right.

Ryan:16:44
Hm.

Ryan:16:49
Just sorry, Sammy, just for the audio listeners, c can you state the name of the book, please?

Samy Allam:16:55
It's the invisible patient, what if the biggest risk to patient safety isn't the disease, but the way we document it?

Ryan:17:05
What a hook. I love that. What was that process like? I'm I'm assuming, please correct me if I'm wrong. This is the first book you you've put together and and published. What was that process actually like? How long and how how did you balance that with everything else you you have going on running this business?

Samy Allam:17:08
Thank you. Thank you.

Samy Allam:17:25
prior to the inception of writing that book, this book, I have published many articles before talking about patient risk and outcome. and what we're trying to do is putting a collage of those articles in a way where the listener, the patient,

Ryan:17:37
Mm-hmm.

Samy Allam:17:49
audience the acute care settings would be all be able to understand that even though if you don't really have that medical knowledge or skill set they would be really understanding the ability of navigating this system through the eyes of those who practice it documentation and reporting.

Ryan:18:09
Yeah. Who would you say that best serves for someone to to read that book and and ga gain this understanding?

Samy Allam:18:19
The patient, for sure. And every every one of us was a patient at some point in life, right? But also hospital administration, the CEOs, the CFOs, the COOs and those who work into the health information management professionals.

Ryan:18:27
Right.

Ryan:18:42
Yeah, I can totally understand why. And it it seems like you have a a few assets, a few a few pieces, well, gems scattered around in terms of how you can actually provide value and light to to this area of your expertise. Can you walk us through what those different areas are? Because I see the clinical documentation integrity, the CDI, the utilization management, the the mid-cycle. revenue consulting, the denial management, the healthcare staffing. Like, can you walk us through that machine and and where those cogs best fit into into place for the listeners who who are trying to grasp this, this whole business?

Samy Allam:19:27
Absolutely and and thank you for a asking that question, Ryan, because this is not common knowledge among among those who even practice medicine or work in our field, but once the pati we follow the patient cycle, okay. So once the patient enters the hospital, this is where the utilization services that we provide kicks in. and the evaluation of whether the patient met the gr criteria for admission. mean mean if the patient meets the criteria for inpatient setting. And in this zone there is a lot of ambiguity. The reason why is because it's not a straightforward process. there is a lot of care management guidelines that are professionals. It's not necessarily me only. team here so the the navigation of that skill set is really important for hospitals to capture at times and it's an area of opportunity to whether no whether this patient needs to be admitted or not and then once the patient gets admitted the information breaks down into what the CDI specialists do and so this is where our CDI work kicks in There is an educational piece which we

Samy Allam:20:52
centers did appreciate the work that we do with them to better document in the way they document the information about patient and also the outcome of that, how it's been reflected once the patient is being discharged.

Ryan:21:09
Sammy, as someone who hasn't come from a a medical background, I know a lot of our listeners also don't share this this common knowledge. What is the biggest difference between how, you know, somebody right now in the industry might approach documentation and logging that information versus how you would educate them to to best serve this process?

Samy Allam:21:32
I think what's been looked at especially for the teams, the executives that have been managing hospitals that do not know C D I versus those who know C D I. I think that would be a fair comparison. Is that the executives that know CDI understand that it's just not about margins only, but margins and quality of care. and patient outcomes. Social determinants of health is what CDI can capture. and those who are not using the CDI services is not really taking all these different elements into the patient care. And so hospitals really run on either a a very shallow margins or very slim acuity capture and of course poor outcomes.

Ryan:22:26
It's not just about reimbursement and the bottom line, but it it has a profound area of other implications if it's not accurate and and coherent.

Yeah. It's so key. So that's that's the that's the CDI documentation, the education piece. What comes next?

Samy Allam:22:49
we are concluding our additional utility patents with dexterity technologies, which is our technology facet. what we're trying to do is put all that skill set in a system where it is able to conclude and capture and reflect the physician judgment but also understand the patient outcome and and the impact of pre existing conditions. and the reporting piece of it, the dissection, we call it dissection of the quality of care, and the real-time comorbidity capture really impacts the treatment plan for the patient. And eventually the financial impacts too. Now on the financial side of things, we know that all patients here in the you know in states are carrying different kind of insurance policies. With each insurance policies are really hard to navigate on both sides. Sometimes on the hospital side, sometimes on the patient side. And so with that we're trying to really eliminate the gray areas and make it a straightforward process on both sides. So we work also with the insurance companies to be able to maximize the benefit of what the patient receives at the hospital. And the from the hospital utilization perspective is to really look forward to an integrity in the utilization process and managed care medicine. And I think that's been really missing right now, due to the fragmentation of care. and we look forward to a health

Ryan:24:35
Sammy, can you explain what you just mentioned, the fragmentation of care to someone who hasn't heard that before? can can you give an example of what that really means?

Samy Allam:24:46
Yes, of course, and thank you. And I think it is also not a common knowledge among the listeners. fragmentation of care is that me, Sammy, getting a treatment in clinic a year ago and and then, you know, time goes by and then I go to a hospital and that hospital doesn't know anything about my visit. Doesn't know anything about my medication. just say Sammy, me, myself, forget what I have received in the past, which obviously common here among the patient population. either repeat a treatment that is not necessary or give a contraindicated medicine which is a patient safety issue and so the integration of all that is the elimination of the fragmentation of care.

Ryan:25:40
Dangerous. Right. And I'm sure yeah, there are pretty pretty extraordinary cases of, you know. does one come to mind for you when when you think about an example of that fragmentation of care that you could share?

Samy Allam:25:42
Buried.

Samy Allam:25:57
So let's just say in my book I say a lot of good stories. and the stories are obviously we say that it's a good illustration of what's happening throughout acute care systems here in the United States. and worldwide honestly sometimes we we see some case reports coming in from different systems. but one that comes to mind, a firefighter, C O P D, I have a chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, heart failure, and coming with cough. Obviously sign and symptom. Underlying conditions are not really captured. first time in this hospital they get admitted and the the physician really treats the cough than the firefighter has.

Well his wife is is really concerned about telling the stories of how many people he saved. But he need some safety and saving himself. because because that cuff has all these different conditions underneath that has not really been captured before. Yes, he knows that he has C O P D but he doesn't ha know that he also has heart failure condition. that is early onset that needs some specificity to to track and modify his medication what modified his his medication upon discharge. and so that's one example. another example is Maria which was a caregiver and she talks in Spanish and the medication, the safety instruction that was given to her was in English. She couldn't understand anything what was given to her. and upon discharge unfortunately she got readmitted again with the same problem. because she couldn't take or follow the medication guidelines.

Ryan:28:10
such a common, common experience i I'm sure in the US, just as much as much as it can be anywhere in the world. But i in terms of how in those two examples specifically, how the implementation of your strategies and and your approach to this would differ in the outcomes, can can you give the audience some concrete on what would have changed should things be non-fragmented?

Samy Allam:28:39
The first example really reflects the importance of capturing pre-existing conditions in real time based on the data and the labs and the prior visits information. And the second example, now we understand that hospitals do provide translation services, but sometimes it may not be available. And those translation services is to better communicate between the physician and the patient.

But the discharge of instructions does not really have in some in some hospitals, not all the hospitals, the ability to have that translation at hand. especially if it's a language that is not really common in the United States, like English and Spanish, English to Spanish or Spanish, or English to French or French to English. which is indigenous populations that has moved here and really does not have way to communicate. and so what we are trying to navigate here is not only the language barrier but the social determinants of them. can the language barrier impose on patient populations, what what the homelessness can impose on patient populations, and also what other risks for like food insecurity or the ability to secure a job or abuse from spouse or relatives, how these social determinants of health impact patient presentation.

Ryan:30:21
There's so many factors that when you look at it from a surface level, they don't seem obvious how they can influence this this sort of risk and exposure. But that the more you peel back the veil, I'm sure there's all of these connections that you can you can make between all these variables. It's it's honestly fascinating. Samuel, I I I want to switch gears here for a moment because one of the things we love to talk about on this show is client acquisition. And in an industry that you're in is is a very unique. position a a lot of our our listeners are obviously in AI high ticket consultancies agencies, some are in medical. How how have you found the most success in the business you're in with actually acquiring clients and and scaling since twenty seventeen?

Samy Allam:31:10
Doing business in good faith for the client, I think that's the best strategy to acquire more clients. and the reason why we say that is you you don't enter a business with the mindset of just making money. we entered the business from the mindset of doing good in this universe and also best in our job from our perspective, good for the patient, how to do good. for everybody else, for the hospital, for the patient, for the reported data, CMS. because we have different circles that we intersect with. We intersect with the CMS reporting, we intersect with the hospital reporting. And so the better you do business, the better you improve hospital outcomes, the better people know about what you do and how you do it. And they want more of it. That's what our business model is really circulating around.

Ryan:32:12
Yeah. So really, I feel like this is often overlooked in the business so much. The power of doing good. Right. The power of doing good, the impact that leaves and the impression that makes. Naturally that creates more business. And you know, we we've personally found that our best clients have also come from referrals, people who know us, people who already believe in what we do. And it's it it's old school because it works.

Right.

Samy Allam:32:42
Absolutely, absolutely, and yes, word of mouth. we we acquired most of our clients from the word of mouth because

Ryan:32:52
Right. Well it's it's something that is is obviously You know, one of those things that's quite complex to the outlooker looking in. So I can understand also why it needs to be within an an inner circle that and a network that you've already created. You you can't go out there and blast cold emails to, you know, all the physicians and health clinics and hospitals in in the US because it's it's just not going to present you with the people you actually can can do value for and and speak best with. So Sami, I I I wanna end looking forward in in terms of your vision for this business and and how you're looking to continue doing good in this world. What is what is your vision for the next twelve months? What's the one thing you're you're really looking to achieve?

Samy Allam:33:42
we wanted to make sure that we're not really seeing the patient from one angle, but more so seeing the patient from all angles. and obviously you know, we wanted to make sure too that our physicians, the care providers that we work with and the hospitals were wanted to amplify their powers in terms of thinking, the process improvement, the seeing through their complex dynamics. It can be challenging at times in acute care setting. and be a thought leader in in this space that not only grow on their own. different care teams that can be at some point leaders in their own space in their own communities and in their own

Ryan:34:39
Yeah, that's beautiful. And personally for you, I can imagine that there are so many hats that you have to interchange. Where would you say you're looking to concentrate your most energy into actually making making that happen?

Samy Allam:34:55
we found I found that to provide better solutions you have to come to the utmost understanding of our challenges. and I am trying to help myself grow and navigate this space of learning and innovating but also not just think forward, just to be able to diverse the way of thinking around the solutions and around the problems and with different peers and collaborations and that's what I'm trying to navigate in these upcoming days and we have a lot of lead we've been blessed with a lot of leadership that worked with us over time. and it it it brings me happiness to see them grow in their space because of the services that

Ryan:35:54
I'm sure that's a beautiful thing to experience. Almost like you know, raising a a child you've grown and mentored into a flourishing, you know, confident adult out there and and doing good in the world. So that's that's an awesome, very aware message to leave off on. Sammy, thank you so much for coming. where can where can the people find you if they want to learn more about what you what you do, your services?

Samy Allam:36:15
Thanks.

Samy Allam:36:22
Our website www.dextstramedical dot com and my email you can send an email to info at dextromedical.com. I'm happy to respond.

Ryan:36:35
Perfect. Awesome. And your your book is available on Amazon right now as well?

Samy Allam:36:43
Amazon Barnes and novels, and feel free to navigate it and let me know if anybody has any questions.

Ryan:36:45
Yes.

Ryan:36:52
Perfect. I'm sure you're going to get inundated. Sammy, I had a blast, mate. Super great to have you on. Thank you for coming. Audience, thank you so much for watching. Until next time.

Samy Allam:37:04
Thank you.