Jonathan W. Buckley has worked with more than 60 B2B tech companies, and over half of them are now public or acquired. In this episode he breaks down why most early stage tech companies are selling to the wrong person, and what changes the moment they stop.
The story at the center of it is a client that spent four years telling the market it was useful for everyone and landed 19 customers. Jonathan cut the target down to 439 named companies in North America. Three quarters later they had 119.
Jonathan W. Buckley is a fractional CMO with more than 30 years in B2B marketing, helping tech companies go from prototype to IPO. He has worked with over 60 B2B tech companies and more than half of them are now public or acquired. He is currently studying agentic AI at MIT.
Full transcript of the conversation, published verbatim. Speaker labels come from the recording itself, not from an automated guess.
Jordan:0:00
So Jonathan, think you were saying how basically one of the foundations to a successful SaaS or B2B tech company is one, having a viable, minimal product or MVP. I probably butchered that, but MVP, I know that much. The second thing is like offer packaging and messaging. Can you elaborate on the messaging side for us?
Jonathan W. Buckley:0:24
Sure. Well, it is quite frequent when we come into early stage tech companies that they haven't quite yet verified that they have the right ICP or the personas attached to them. For instance, one company I came into was a cybersecurity company.
It was formed by cybersecurity experts. They made a cybersecurity related platform and they were selling it to cybersecurity people in companies, the CISOs and the CIOs. It wasn't until we examined the deals that were closing faster versus the ones that wouldn't close at all or were very slow that we realized the key constituent in the enterprise sale was a head of HR, which is weird because the product, one of its side benefit is it helped customers onboard and exit employees faster without the worries of passwords and locking people out of systems. So the deals that had a chief people officer or high level HR person would move faster. And the context of this was it was around the time that cloud apps were really gaining momentum in corporations. But this is an example of testing and verifying that you have the right set of verticals dialed in, the right size and age of companies that you're targeting. There are many dimensions that carve that up. but also the right personas. Now you're going to create, in messaging you're going to create a top level story. What we have found more often than not, since the companies were started by technologists for the most part, there's rarely a good translation layer between the gizmos and the buyer's wants, needs and dreams, right? So that's where the messaging comes in.
Jonathan W. Buckley:2:46
And we always try and find a story to tell. This isn't about creating data sheets. Those are maybe 10 % memorable. I wrote an article about this, the math and science of storytelling in the enterprise. If you have a story that's memorable, this goes for artwork too. High-priced artwork always has a backstory. A sale in the enterprise should always have a backstory. and the messaging should take that into account. Then things start moving faster. You have the right company, the right people, the right story, and then you customize when you're doing your outreach that basic story to the different personas. Look, if you're reaching out to VPs and above, they care about strategy in the next 18 months. If you reach out to director level, they care about budgets and headcount.
If you reach out to managers, they're worried about CYI, CYA, sorry about that.
Jordan:3:54
Let me see what have. Sorry, what's CYA?
Jonathan W. Buckley:3:57
Oh, sorry, cover your ass. So in other words, how will this affect the time I'm putting in? Will I be caught hands down in meeting my goals? Will it make my job easier? So you just have different levels of people's concerns that you address. And that's the core to messaging. There's also a lot of detail like we usually do.
Jordan:3:59
Right.
Jonathan W. Buckley:4:25
value claims analysis. And that is you might have five, six, 10 companies that are either substitutes or direct competitors. These companies frequently stake their claims in various areas. Maybe we save you money, less customer support, we've got the best service department in the industry, whatever it may be. We have now made this work a lot easier to do. We've created a custom AI which goes out and looks at all the value claims, counts up how many times they're made by each of the companies, and then provides a map back. And this allows, in the messaging and positioning, it allows us to find what I would call the blue ocean in messaging. Where can we stake a claim and fortify it that makes us unique?
That doesn't mean that you don't make similar claims at the margin to the other companies. There's only so many claims to go around, but find your particular claim you can make. So that's what's behind it. Company, persona, messaging, positioning, and story.
Jordan:5:42
Thanks for so many insights. As someone who does outbound internally and also for clients, I think what you're describing is probably the most important piece to a successful outbound campaign. If you are sending the same generic email to a list of 10,000 people that are not segmented, that are not personalized, that not... tied to the different persona types, you are going to get ass results. Sorry, but you're not going to get any good results or we're to get bad results to keep it simple. But when you do segment that list, you do hyper personalize these outreach campaigns. Sure, it's a little more work on the front end, but the results are 10x, sometimes 100x different on the back end. And I think everyone wants a 10x or 100x better return, right? Now, It's interesting because when I sit down with other companies on the podcast, they lack this knowledge. They think that, I work with everyone. I work with small media businesses. They don't have no niche, no persona, no best customer lists. It's like a spray and pray and they have like 15 different services. I'm like, that doesn't make any sense to me. Let's look at just the top companies globally. They sell to one.
You could argue this, but you typically sell to one to two different demographics and your services are very, very like this fricking narrow, not like this, not a mile wide, not a mile wide, but very, very narrow. Can you explain? Obviously I know, but can you explain why that is so important when actually scaling up any organization, including B2B Tech?
Jonathan W. Buckley:7:25
Sure. focus at a company particularly early on, but really sustained to the whole company life cycle is the key to success. If you don't have it and you're a young company, you will burn out of money. In other words, I can't tell you the number of companies I took on as clients that started with, well, we're useful for everyone.
We could be in the enterprise, we could be in SMB, could, know, everywhere in between. That'll kill you. Just like on a battlefield, focus on the enemy where the enemy is, right, and train all the guns there is the key to success. And it is quite common that they haven't segmented their audiences. Now, I think it was Michael Porter that said the core word to strategy is no, what you're not going to do. So we do spend a lot of time early on when we revamp a demand gen campaign for these early companies. What do we pull out? Let's not talk about what we put in, but what do we pull out? Because ultimately what we're trying to do is to drive to a repeatable, predictable revenue model so you can hit the lever and get a biscuit. So that is required to get your series B. They want to see the funnel math. And if you don't have a repeated pattern, know, 10,000 person company here, 20 person company over there, VP over here, manager over here, you know, there isn't a pattern on the companies you're going after and the personas within those companies, you're going to spray and pray your dollars. You will burn out of money if you keep that up. And you're not going to have those repeatable, predictable patterns you need for your Series B. Period.
Jordan:9:36
From an equity standpoint, from a profitability standpoint, you need that repeatable. I like to call it. did not coin this. I learned from somewhere else, but the optimal selling system where you have basically one offer, one core problem that you solve with one solution you provide to the prospective client. It's the same person just with a different face coming through your funnel, hopping on sales calls again with the same solution.
When you can build, as you're describing, a repeatable, predictable system, you pull the lever, you get why outcome. Not only does it make you sleep better at night, but give me one sec, my dogs are going crazy.
Jordan:10:28
from a, you know, it can help you sleep better at night standpoint, but more importantly, if your, your goal is to sell the company one day, that's what investors want. That's what, you know, other individuals, sure. Private equity firms want. They want to know, okay, if I pour X money in, am I going to get Y dollars out? Right? I guess at a very high level, that's kind of how it works. There was one thing that I wanted to say, give me, give me, give me one second.
Do you only work with B2B enterprise tech companies?
Jonathan W. Buckley:11:02
No, we've had some B2C actually. More often than not, they're B2B type tech, tech for whether it's the SMB, mid-market or enterprise. I come up through enterprise selling. So, you know, I have some acumen there. But we have great playbooks for each of those different segments.
You know, we don't have a lot of B2C, but the ones that we had, you know, had great success. Each of them actually made it public down the road. Now we didn't take them all the way to going public, but we set the path, set the vector, right? The focus, we set the focus. you know, so what it is in the end is you have a person or entity you're selling to in a repeated pattern. and you implicitly understand and then explicitly explain what value you bring to that person or entity. You just change it up in a B2C. We haven't done any true Instagram-like selling, but it's always technology.
In this case, was technology that was sold to realtors, which is a very B2C motion. And, you know, we've got a playbook for that.
Jordan:12:36
That's super cool. On the topic of the OSS or the, you know, repeatable process, it allows you to remove yourself as the founder, as the tech engineer, remove yourself as the bottleneck, right? Because if, again, it's, if it's one person come to the funnel, one problem, one solution, you can now teach that skill to somebody else in a much easier manner than.
Jonathan W. Buckley:12:59
All right.
Jordan:13:00
You have 10 different faces or 10 different people come to the funnel, 10 different problems, 10 different solutions. How the hell do you train somebody on that? It will take them 12 months to learn the basics, opposed to just one, one in one. You know?
Jonathan W. Buckley:13:12
You'll also have to have a much bigger marketing team. You're going to have to have different product marketing folks for different segments, different value propositions. Like I have a client right now, I just started with them a couple of weeks ago. They're very early, but they have three product lines and they're not sold to the same entities. They're not like additive products. So I'm spending the first couple of weeks. trying to coach the founders into driving focus in the business. Do more of one, maybe two things, but don't try and be best at all three, not until you have tens and tens and tens of million in financing. He's bootstrapping this right now because now you need three different messaging platforms, you need three different branded product lines.
It can be done, but it's not advisable because it takes so much fuel to make that work.
Jordan:14:10
I think on the topic of focus, think Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, they both said this same thing about success. And they said the number, like the number one indicator, the biggest key is focus. And what you're describing right now is essentially that, right? When you, when your mind, your attention is split up between three different products, that's not focused at all, right? Master one, I'm sure there are Tam.
I'm sure you know what that means. Their Tandr total adjustable market is big enough for one persona, one solution, and still probably make multiple six if not eight figures. You know what mean?
Jonathan W. Buckley:14:45
Right, right. You know, just a short story, Jordan, around the issue of focus. I did have a client in 2015 into 16. We came into the company. They had been operating for four years and they only had 19 customers. So.
Jordan:15:07
How was I?
Jonathan W. Buckley:15:09
They had claimed they're useful for companies of all types and whatever. What we showed over time is that they're best at targeting companies less than 15 years old that have certain attributes. They've hired certain people in the past year. This is a big data product. So they had to have big data engineers in the company to even entertain this thing.
And we used, this is pre-LLMs, we used a machine learning process to dial it into the 439 companies in North America that they should be selling to. we explained why, what's the math behind it. Now, the board freaked out. because they had just put $20 million into this company and they're like, only $439 companies need this?
I tried, I pushed back and said, that's not 439 forever. That's right now. Companies need to evolve. You have a leading edge product. It takes leading edge organizations to adopt it. Well, though I was met with such great resistance, I just started executing the plan against the 439. all the LinkedIn, all the webinars, all the meetups, all, 439. So we ended up with 119 companies in the next three quarters. And that's the value of focus. 19 after four years and 119 after three more quarters.
Jordan:17:00
That is fucking amazing. Excuse my length, but that is really, really impressive. Can you talk to us about LinkedIn and maybe some outbound strategies that you'd like to utilize on behalf of your clients or maybe teach the fundamental principles to your clients so they can go and execute.
Jonathan W. Buckley:17:16
Sure, sure, So as we've demonstrated in an enterprise sale, let's just anchor it there. It's a little bit different in the mid market SMB. There are six to seven buying constituents in a company that you're targeting. Now they may not be your primary, there's really one primary buyer. Let's say it's the CIO. but you're gonna have security personnel, you're gonna have IT managers, you're going to have someone from finance, if not the CFO, him or herself. You get the idea. There are six to seven, you have to uncover them. Now, once you have that laid out, psychologically, you have to hit them five to six times in a contained period, call it 90 days. So.
This is how advertising works, by the way. You see a billboard, you see an online ad, a radio ad. They're trying to hit you multiple times to instill in memory familiarity and trust with your name. So you do the same thing in B2B or enterprise sales. One of those vehicles happens to be that we use all the time is LinkedIn. And we usually thread that together with email marketing. It's less effective than it was 10 years ago for sure. But through this methodology, we can show the opens clicks and responses, the call to action enablement. we usually like to, there are different formulas for different companies, but usually it's have a sales profile that has the the anonymous feature turned off in LinkedIn. Land on your target's page for three or more seconds. They'll know that everyone looks at who's looking at their profile. Don't tell me you don't. Next, wait two or three days. Send a highly personalized message and a request to connect and why. Now,
Jonathan W. Buckley:19:31
you build the base of that message with AI tools today, you can do personalization at scale. All right? Make sure you train your model with your voice, your tone, and then also the value proposition that your company, your product is bringing for that particular persona. And you can crank out some remarkable at-scale connections. Then usually,
Jordan:19:37
Yes sir!
Jonathan W. Buckley:19:59
I'm not saying it's the same formula every time, but a formula I'm using for artesian, as a matter of fact, is wait three more days and send a personalized connection request on LinkedIn. Following up on your email, I'm very interested in your company and what you're doing and the success that you've made in X, Y, or Z. And then sprinkle in content. sends, even if they don't hear back from you don't hear back from them, send them a send them a case study or, you know, so you're hitting your five to six times. And if there's no response, cycle it back one more. And then let's put it off in the loss because there's, there's so many other folks that would be interested in what you have to say or should be interested in what you had to say.
Jordan:20:52
Yeah. And if they don't get back to you on the initial, I don't know, let's just say you've reached out to them in Q1. If you don't hear back from them Q1, try again in Q3 or next year. You know, they're still your ICP. Maybe that time in Q1 last year, you know, wasn't the best time to reach out, you know? So definitely don't stop reaching out to your, you know, your ICP.
Jonathan W. Buckley:21:01
That's great.
Jonathan W. Buckley:21:12
Yeah, put them in nurture. Yeah.
Jordan:21:15
Exactly. On that topic, I would love your feedback on kind of my approach here. So I love how you brought up personalization at scale because that's exactly what we do. We use cloud code to be really candid. We use cloud code to enrich the lead using 10 different data sources. We draft an ultra, ultra personalized email like it was written just for them. We keep the email under 60 words and a post is saying, hey, do you have 15 minutes to chat about this? We say, Hey, we have this personalized lead magnet. That's just called an audit or a game plan, a roadmap, whatever. Here's a personal roadmap for the company. Do you want me to send it up? And when they say, yes, we have Claude code, literally draft them a personalized roadmap or a personalized audit. Again, using data that we pull from Claude code and send it back to that lead. I don't know in under 15 minutes. Now, whenever we received that initial positive reply, We automatically connect with them on LinkedIn saying, Hey, this is Jordan from company. I'm sending over your audit now thought it made sense to connect here as well. Right. And, and we essentially utilize internally.
Jonathan W. Buckley:22:18
Mm-hmm.
Jordan:22:30
The entire process is the demo. Like, outbound to respective clients is essentially what I'm installing and selling to them. So when they see all of that happen, not only are they like, wow, this is really good, but like it's, it worked on them. So like the trust, the no like, the no like trust factor is definitely there. But more importantly, it's like, this is new. This was really fast and it's really personalized. How the hell would you do this?
Jonathan W. Buckley:22:32
Right.
Jordan:22:59
And because it's sparking so much curiosity, I mean, we're getting good results. Clients are clients are amazing. And I know in our first call, Jonathan, I kind of talked about this, but like, obviously I think I'm onto something and I would love a mentor. We're kind of love a mentor to actually kind of help me scale this thing. I'm really curious. should look at getting VCs for this. My shit's bootstrap bootstrap as hell, but amazing case studies, amazing results.
Jonathan W. Buckley:23:18
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan W. Buckley:23:25
Mm-hmm.
Jordan:23:28
Obviously we can talk about this offline, but just from the process, Personalization, 60 words or less on the email automatically connect LinkedIn overall. Do you think that's a solid strategy and opposed to asking for time, we're giving them value upfront for free.
Jonathan W. Buckley:23:35
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan W. Buckley:23:48
I think that's a really good, that's in some of our playbooks too, that works very, very well. The time investment may be way too much without building trust first. You have a method to build trust or fortify any bit of trust that you might already have. But yes, Jordan, reaching out to six to seven people in an enterprise five to six times, work towards that goal. That's what I have my marketers do, work towards that goal.
Then you start thinking of it as a system, not as a set of tactics. You can't do marketing these days with a set of tactics. They need to be threaded together with an overall strategy. And I laid out the numbers of that strategy.
Jordan:24:33
No, you did. You did. Thank you. Thank you for that. I don't know. I mean, if I could sell to enterprise, that'd be fantastic. Obviously much more revenue, but I don't know if my ICP is actually enterprise clients, but maybe off camera we can talk about that.
Jonathan W. Buckley:24:50
Yeah, we'll talk about it. So just keep in mind that enterprises are really risk adverse. So you're bringing something very new. They're uncomfortable with AI as it is. They're not seeing returns on the experiments that they're doing. It might be better that you're looking for early adopter SMB or SME customers. know, the thousand person companies are more apt to perhaps experiment with this. Yeah.
Jordan:25:20
Thousand person company, that's like enterprise. you're saying don't target those.
Jonathan W. Buckley:25:25
No, no, no. consider that small to mid-size enterprise. True enterprise, you're in the multiple, multiple thousands, generally, and billions of revenue. So there's all different kinds of definitions, but I would put a thousand-person company in the mid-market, definitely.
Jordan:25:49
Okay, cool. I know nothing about series A, series B, series C. Can you please explain to me and the audience who also may not know, like what each of those even, like what's a series A? What's a series C? Like, what is that?
Jonathan W. Buckley:26:03
Okay, well, these are classifications the securities administration puts on them, but let me break it down fundamentally. So you really have pre-seed, seed, series A, B, C, as you said, you can go all the way up to, I had a series F company before they went public. But there's also something called mezzanine financing before you go public.
So essentially, a seed is to build your prototype. You might have something simple. It may be still a PowerPoint presentation about the concept, but you need some cash to build something you can demonstrate. Series A comes in when you've, with that prototype, you ran beta tests and you've had an initial customer feedback cycle or two, and you have positive signals.
Right? You have something that people are telling you they're willing to buy if only you make it a reality. And don't rely on your friends and family for that, by the way. You know, arms-length people. So a Series A typically is the final productization and commercialization of what was a prototype. So the polish and then... your initial demand gen. You have your messaging and positioning done. You have your demand gen system, your targeted ICP. Everything is connected up. Series B is really about putting fuel on a fire that's already blazing. So if you run your Series A properly, you've contained your cash flow or lack of cash flow properly, you now have some sort of repeatability. the hit a lever and get a biscuit, you know, basically the math of a funnel. So series B is about putting fuel on that fire. So you have to present to the VCs when going for series B, a good mathematical funnel. Series C is accelerating growth, basically, because now with the series B, you've showed that now you've taken and amplified the math that you have to greater numbers.
Jonathan W. Buckley:28:23
And CEC makes you scale. And then there's detail in all the rest of them if they keep running out of cash, pivot, all that sort of thing. But that's the early stage of a
Jordan:28:36
Gotcha. Thanks for the insights there. From a funding standpoint, is it a pretty wide margin of a business can acquire in each different stage? Or is there like benchmarks or averages that one would receive in pre-seed Series A all the way up to Series C?
Jonathan W. Buckley:28:58
Yeah, there's patterned metrics from VC Fund. mean, the sample size is hundreds of companies that are getting, if you just stick with the United States, perhaps even just Silicon Valley, that's enough to draw some patterns. yes, all those stats change over time though. 20, 30 years ago, Having a $10 million or $20 million Series A was almost unheard of in tech. I had a $130 million Series A company I was working with. Unbelievable. You don't see it that often, the pattern broke. it's more than the time value of money. It's expanded to larger and larger.
And what they're trying to do is the VCs are trying to compress more growth early on. It's not a good idea because these companies sometimes didn't take the time to learn how to effectively get to their market. And so what they're doing is throwing cash at it and burning a lot. Only 5 % of these tech companies even reach a series C. They're gone before the series C. and they all run out of cash for the same reasons. You can look it up. There's good benchmarks on that. But yeah, there's benchmarks on the funding, who funds what, when, know, there's good pitch book that has a good source for that as a company.
Jordan:30:42
Okay, for sure. Thank you. Thank you again. Going back to tactics and strategies, is there anything else that you would love to elaborate on where you've implemented this strategy for XYZ company and they achieve XYZ result? I know you have tons of case studies.
Jonathan W. Buckley:31:00
Yeah, yeah, I do have a ton. We've had over 60 clients. And like I said, more than 50 % of them are now public or purchased companies. there are playbooks that are transferable. They need tweaks. Like think of it as an editor with a book, right? It's been written, but you need to edit it for a specific audience.
Jordan:31:10
That's what I can say.
Jonathan W. Buckley:31:29
The opportunities that exist for marketers ahead with the advent of AI in modern LLMs and now agentic AIs is unprecedented. There are two or three person marketing teams running hundred million dollar businesses right now and soon billion dollar businesses. However, Too many people are falling in the trap that you don't need a seasoned human in the middle. This sounds self-serving, right? But my team might not be playing the cello and the violin anymore, but we have to be trained to be conductors, right? You might not have a human person on your team, but the best way to think of an agentic AI is that it's a team member.
Jordan:32:25
Yes.
Jonathan W. Buckley:32:25
and it's an extension of you. So you have to have the experience, the pattern recognition, the understanding of what needs to be tuned, when, where, and how, and then orchestrate the AIs, just like you would a human team 10 years ago. So we, as an eight-person focused boutique company, are able to service probably twice the number of clients we could at a single time than a number of years ago, because we were pulling all the levers and everything. Now we can take, I effectively have a 16 or a 24 person team with these AI agents. Yeah.
Jordan:33:09
Absolutely. I, in simple terms, what we install for other clients is what I call an AI SDR. I don't like describing it as that because that's kind of a common word nowadays. And I like we're a lot different than the market, but anyways, but in SDR, like that's a human position. They fucking, you know, they, they scrape data or they, or they, build lists, they verify emails, they personalize emails, they reach out on LinkedIn. Like we can automate that entire process.
Jonathan W. Buckley:33:21
Mm-hmm.
Jordan:33:38
for a lot cheaper than a human SDR. You know what I mean? So yes.
Jonathan W. Buckley:33:42
Yeah, it's not even being less cheaper. It is. It's one millionth of the cost or something. But it's the speed you can get, Much more speed. And for the startup, speed is really your only competitive advantage, speed and agility. So yeah, I read a study recently that said a human knowledge worker, I guess that's redundant,
Jordan:33:55
Yeah, continue.
Jonathan W. Buckley:34:12
A knowledge worker can process about 20,000 words per day, because in the end, we're all in the words business. Talking, writing, whatever. Current AIs can now do that for 200 bucks a year, just that level. And of course, they do way more than 20,000 a day. But just to match the capability of a human knowledge worker, it's about $200 a year.
And it's falling towards zero. It's not going to hit zero, but it's falling in that direction very quickly.
We're not going to be able to fight those economics.
Jordan:34:52
What would you say to businesses that are hesitant to start looking at AI more seriously? Obviously you're in the thick of it. What you described taking on twice as many clients for, like you said, a millionth of the cost. And obviously I use it internally, but what would you say for the businesses out there that are like, AI is scary. I don't like AI, blah, blah. What would you say to encourage them to like look at this or your business might be bankrupt?
Jonathan W. Buckley:35:19
Right. Well, I'm not one to advocate releasing AI agents out of the gate. I mean, for instance, open call, there's some very real security flaws that still need to be patched. There's really concerning behaviors of agentic AIs, self-preservation, even maliciousness against people trying to contain it. That aside, If you don't start working towards integrating this new technology soon, your competitors will force you to or force you out of business. Obviously, it's affecting my business, any knowledge worker, right? So I felt and I would relay that take... the force by the harnesses and ride it in the direction you want it to go, whether it's the stable or the pasture, or it's just gonna buck you off and you won't be in business much longer. It's a very powerful tool and it's getting better on a monthly basis. We've never seen tech move this fast before. And there are broad swaths of things that can do already. Some say that we'll be able to do everything humans can do within 12 to 18 months, it's moving that fast. So whether you're an accountant, whether you're an attorney, whether you're a marketer, whatever, you really have to embrace it now. Hey, I put myself in an MIT course this quarter. So I actually went back to school to get the agentic AI certificate for transforming companies with AI, right?
Jordan:37:12
That's super cool.
Jonathan W. Buckley:37:12
So we all need to do what you can, even if it's the $50 Google class on agentic AI. Take it, understand it, play with it.
Jordan:37:23
Yes, play with it. I think that's the best way to learn exactly what it can and cannot do is play with it. One thing I want to say about replacing human knowledge thinkers as you kind of phrased it. AI is only in my opinion almost is it's only as good as the initial context that you give it. So Jonathan, with your knowledge, with your fucking vast expertise,
Jonathan W. Buckley:37:27
Yeah.
Jordan:37:51
I can imagine AI being so much more powerful in your hands, opposed to somebody who knows, I don't know, a hundredth of what you know, like the things you can build, the speed of implementation. So kind of like picking you up and lifting you up a bit. I don't think you're going to get replaced by any means because of, again, the knowledge that you have. And because of the knowledge that you have, can create amazing
Jonathan W. Buckley:38:01
Right.
Jordan:38:18
Agents and workflows or AI, whatever. So I think you're, you're definitely in good hands, but for the other folks out there, would say pick it up, start learning now, you know.
Jonathan W. Buckley:38:30
Yeah, you really have to. I started last year by making custom GPTs. I took all my, since 2009, information on patterns and messaging, positioning, my benchmarks that I kept all the years, and I trained the custom private GPTs. There's 12 of them with this knowledge. on top of industry best practices that are published, on top of what the bots could go out and comb. So it's really tailored it towards with information that comes from our particular expertise in working with these companies. That's when it gets really powerful. I feel like I have a superpower now, right? It's not going to... fully replace me, it's going to augment me, it's going augment my team. We can do more faster, more accurately, and more economically.
Jordan:39:32
Absolutely. I feel like that is a great way to end the show unless you want to say one more thing. But I just want to thank you so much for joining us. This is legit the best show in my opinion for personal selfish reasons. was such an honor to have you on Jonathan.
Jonathan W. Buckley:39:48
Alright, I appreciate it. Thanks for spending time with me, Jordan.
Jordan:39:52
So yeah, worries, my friend. Audience, till next time.
Jonathan W. Buckley:39:55
All right, bye.
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