Carl Willis on Becoming the Expert ChatGPT Recommends

Jordan Lally:0:01
Welcome back to the High Ticket AI Systems podcast. Everyone, please welcome one and only Mr. Carl Willis. Carl, welcome to the show, my friend. How are you doing today?

Carl Willis:0:10
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Jordan.

Jordan Lally:0:12
Absolutely. We're happy to have you. Now, for those of us that are unfamiliar with the name or even the brand, can you please give us a high level overview of what the company does and who you guys best serve?

Carl Willis:0:23
Yeah, certainly. So I am the CEO and founder of Simplicity Marketing based in Wichita, Kansas, and most people aren't familiar with Simplicity Marketing. most people know us through our forward facing brands, remodeling marketing team and agent branding and marketing. And so that's how most people would know me or the brands of Simplicity Marketing.

Jordan Lally:0:48
Gotcha. And what would you say you guys do on the simplicity marketing side of things?

Carl Willis:0:54
Yeah, so we service business to business and we've selected two verticals that are really our favorite playgrounds. One is the home construction and remodeling vertical, the other is local insurance agents primarily in the property and casualty space.

Jordan Lally:1:14
Gotcha. Okay. for the marketing for the B to B marketing side of things, I was checking out the website. Looks like you guys are heavily involved in AI right now.

Carl Willis:1:23
Very much. That's the the centerpiece of what we do, and that's been really our forte for about the last three years.

Jordan Lally:1:32
Gotcha. Looks like AI SEO, lowering your cost per click, even cost per conversion with the help of AI. I for 'cause AI SEO is like so new. Wha how how would you describe that to someone hearing about it for the first time?

Carl Willis:1:48
Well, it it really it goes beyond that. So I I like to I'm a storyteller. So you know, I'm a a child of the eighties and when Google began beta testing their AI process back in twenty twenty three. I looked at that and said, Well, when the Terminator comes to town, it takes another Terminator, right? about that time Chat GPT rolled out custom GPTs.

And so my hypothesis was simply that if you were to take a local business and and train a custom GPT on that business, you likely could produce the signals that Google's AI was looking for in a ranking context, and you could help that local business perform very well in the Google search environment.

And so that's really what we began to build our SEO process around was amplifying the voice of the local business in a way that Google's algorithm being AI-driven would recognize and and respond to.

Jordan Lally:3:02
Gotcha, gotcha. Do you make custom GBTs for all clients?

Carl Willis:3:07
We do.

Jordan Lally:3:09
Wha wha what's a custom GPT for the for those listening?

Carl Willis:3:12
So so a custom GPT, so when Chad GPT first came out, you know, everybody was like, cool, you can tell it to write emails and stuff. But a custom GPT, instead of pulling from the the broader internet, is trained on specifically on your data. so you train it on whatever data you want to train it on.

And that's what it operates off of. And so that was the aha moment. I could take a a GPT, an AI, and take your business, Jordan, and and ask you basically an interview and say, Jordan, tell me about yourself, tell me about your business, tell me about who are your biggest competitors, tell me why you're better than they are, tell me what it is you do differently, what's your unique selling proposition? Tell me what services do you offer, tell me.

You know, what who's your who's your ideal client and and what is it that you do that makes you the best fit for that client and ask you all these questions and then teach that AI all of those nuances and then start using that to move the search needle through content, through you know, targeting specific keywords, through building topical authority clusters through all sorts of you know creative ways to really build dominance around specific topics, specific ideas.

And do that in a way that creates just valuable signal generation that the AI on the search engine side would recognize and not just the search engine, but then realizing that that search was changing. It wasn't just gonna be Google anymore. You're gonna have you know ChatGPT and Perplexity and Claude and all these other platforms now out, you know, gathering information on behalf of the user.

Jordan Lally:5:13
What are some of the, I guess, stronger or hidden channels that help with backlinks or help with citations? Cause you said content's changing and SEO is changing. So when whenever AI whenever you get an answer from AI overviews, where do you feel like it's pulling data from the most? maybe some hidden places that common people common people wouldn't think of.

Carl Willis:5:38
Yeah. Well I I think one of my my first aha's was AI loves LinkedIn. AI loves forums. Reddit has has been found to have been a a very strong signal generator for all the AI platforms. so Reddit forums have been a strong place, but but LinkedIn in particular, LinkedIn articles have ranked strongly.

We also know that YouTube is a data layer. We know that video shorts are a data layer. So Instagram reels, TikTok reels, you know, any of those short form videos, those transcripts have been used to train large language models. so so those are some of those data layers that people weren't really thinking about. and we found moved the needle significantly. for our clients when we began to utilize

Jordan Lally:6:38
Gotcha. Yeah, I know like Reddit is a freaking powerful one too. I'm not sure if you've if you noticed that as well, but

Carl Willis:6:44
Yeah. Yeah, Reddit Reddit's phenomenal.

Jordan Lally:6:47
Does does go correct me if I'm wrong, but does Google own Reddit?

Carl Willis:6:52
Google I not that we know of. Yeah, yeah.

Jordan Lally:6:54
Right.

You you might think that w that way though, because some of the citations like Reddit this, Reddit that, Reddit this Reddit that would go all over the damn place. Okay, cool.

Carl Willis:7:06
Yeah. Yeah, not not that we're aware of, but that doesn't mean anything.

Jordan Lally:7:10
For sure. Under the table, you know? Regarding the and then please help me. If if I'm if far off in that field, please help me. But I believe on the website you you're helping B to B businesses lower their cost of cost per conversion with the help of AI. How how would that work from your perspective? 'Cause I think it's freaking awesome though.

Carl Willis:7:12
Yeah.

Carl Willis:7:34
So one of the things that we do is is back to the terminator analogy, is Google's algorithm works in Google's favor. No doubt about it. So one of my favorite conversations with our clients is there are these Google reps that call anybody who is advertising with Google. And they call all the time, helping to optimize your Google ad account.

Jordan Lally:7:48
Ha ha

Carl Willis:8:03
And I use that term loosely. what they're really helping you do is is spend more money. and so we use our AI to to the easiest way to describe it is look at the seams in the algorithm. Where are the hidden opportunities in that advertising auction algorithm that we can can utilize to help lower those costs? What are where are those those little hidden places that that may be overlooked, that may not be getting utilized? where we can we can be placing bids or we can be targeting That maybe other advertisers are not taking advantage of that allow us to lower those acquisition costs. maybe we need to be bidding at at some times that are active that other advertisers aren't paying attention to. and and it's just by having our AI study the algorithm, studying the activity, studying the search trends.

And and just analyzing that data and and then making adjustments based on those findings.

Jordan Lally:9:21
Got you. No, that's really that's really neat. Really neat. Very interesting. I like how you said that. They call they call you to help help you optimize your campaign, but really they're trying to get you to spend more money. That is so freaking true. kind of change of direction. You also help on the insurance side of things, right? I I believe in our first call, you own an insurance agency, also have a marketing agency on behalf of insurance companies or

Carl Willis:9:49
We we do. Yeah, yeah. So so one of Agent Branding and Marketing is one of our brands and and we service insurance agents.

Jordan Lally:9:51
So both of those are correct?

Jordan Lally:10:01
Gotcha. P and C.

Carl Willis:10:03
PNC primarily, yeah.

Jordan Lally:10:05
Is that glob not globally? nationally or

Carl Willis:10:07
Yeah, yeah, that's national.

Jordan Lally:10:11
For the type of I assume you're running ads on behalf of insurance companies?

Carl Willis:10:16
May for for many of them, yes.

Jordan Lally:10:18
Many of them. Are you split testing between static ads and video ads or primarily just just static?

Carl Willis:10:26
Yeah, we do both. We do both. And and kind of the Jordan, the the the big thing there, so I'll I'll give you a a a great, you know, scenario here. So a lot of our clients in that particular agency are captive. So they're working under a national brand. the scenario that they have is that national brand may put ten other agents in their community who are within a two mile radius of where their office is located. So they are having to distinguish themselves from ten other agents who operate under the same brand name, under the same national advertising, offering the same services that they do, but they have to create a unique selling proposition for themselves.

And so that's what they're hiring us to do. How do I make you look distinctive when every other piece of advertising, every other service you offer, everything else about you looks the same as the other nine agents around you? And and so that again is what they're hiring us to do. How do I bring out what is unique about you and amplify that?

Jordan Lally:11:45
Well I have to ask, how how does one go about that? Especially when competition is

Carl Willis:11:48
Well that that's where I have to to get to know you. So I have to get to know Jordan. What makes Jordan tick? What may why would I do business with Jordan? What why what makes you unique? Because at the end of the day, people do business with those they know, like, and trust. And and so the national advertising may have convinced me to to consider that brand, but Now I have to decide the personality contest. Who do I like? Who do I resonate with? Who who who gets me? because that's who I'm gonna work with day to day. And and that's the competition I call it the ground game that I have to help that agent win. I have to help them win the ground game. And and so, you know, let's take our our our conversation today. So, you know, I'm looking at your bookshelf. You know, I I see a couple of books behind you. Well, I've read a couple of those, so that's my my initial point of connection with you.

So those are the kinds of things that I have to amplify. I have to help leverage in that agent's arsenal to to make them win the contest so that they don't disappear into the corporate fog and look like everybody else.

Jordan Lally:13:13
I think what you said about people do business with people they know, like, and trust. I come from a very transactional-based selling. I did door-to-door. I sold solar, where it's essentially a one-day close or a one-call close. I thought to myself, there has to be a better way to make money than banging on frickin' doors like K-Men, right? So then I founded the agency six going on seven years now. And some If you're selling lower ticket items, I think it can be transactional, but even then it it doesn't convert as well. It's actually building a relationship, actually asking really strategic questions so they can view you as the expert, which leads into a relationship. it took me, I don't know, man, like quite some time, like two and a half, three years, to really put the person first and put the sale second. And once I did that.

I took all the pressure off myself when it came to selling. Because I I think you can probably relate to this or you know what I'm talking about. When you have commission breath, you just sound like a salesman, you know, it's like, dude, shut up, leave me alone. I don't want to talk to you. I don't care what what you're selling, dude, get away from me. You know, but if you actually come from a place of like genuine human curiosity, like just a freaking human being, I I think conversations are much more easier or just much easier.

So yeah, just piggybacking off what you said. People do business with people they know like and trust. So be that person that they can know like and trust, not a salesman.

Carl Willis:14:52
Exactly. Yeah, and I'm I'm a fan, Jordan, of of attraction marketing. So so you put out your expertise, you be the the authority in your field, and the right people will just come to you. It's magnetic. they they will resonate with who you are, they'll raise their hand and say, Here I am.

You know what what do you need from me? in fact I just got off of a a sales call before I jumped on with you. And he was looking for an AI expert in the remodeling field to take over his marketing. He's been talking to marketing companies, but he needed somebody specialized in his vertical, but specifically who gets AI because that's the direction he wants to go. Well, what'd he do? He went out to Chat GPT and asked Chat GPT who's the AI expert in the remodeling field that does marketing.

Jordan Lally:15:52
Ha ha.

Carl Willis:15:53
Here he is, you know. And we had a great conversation. And so when it was time to close, it was a matter of saying, Here's what I charge. this is what our company charges, take it or leave it. and and that's the great thing. The sales resistance comes down because you've already positioned yourself. and and and so it's a matter of People have already made the decision. I want to work with you. And and so you're not having to sell per se. It it really is more of a conversation of do we resonate? Because they they've already decided.

Jordan Lally:16:36
That is so true. That that is so true. I I think well I I want to say so many things. Number one is when someone else, like a third party thing, says that you're the expert, that weighs so much more than I'm the expert, Carl. You just have to believe me. You know what I mean? But if YouTube says it, if ChatGPT is any LLM out there says no, Carl Willis is the guy. Like you should listen to him. It's like, I'm trusting, I'm trusting, I'm trusting that guy. Carl's the guy. Like, okay, cool. And second thing of piggybacking off of your they come to the call already sold. I think that is so freaking true. I think most of them are nice and they listen to what you have to say, but in the back of their mind, they're like, I'm definitely not buying today. I just want more information. And it's not that it's unfair, but it's like the salespers like they have a job to do.

And the prospect they have a job to do, that's not to buy, or else they go against their own word. So it's kind of like this this playful tango that they're doing on the call. I don't know where I'm going with that, but I I know for a fact I have experienced that because I've been in the prospect shoes where it's like, Man, I own a business. I know you have a job to do, I'm just not buying today. And they can respect that, but in the back of their mind, they're like, I know you're just saying that you're definitely gonna buy today, you know? And I've also been on the other side where like I'm trying to sell something and like They say that to me. So it's like the this tango that we have to play, you know, for doing a dance. I have you experienced that at all, I guess.

Carl Willis:18:04
Yeah, yeah.

Carl Willis:18:09
all the time. All the time. I mean it it is a dance. And you know, I just and I'm like you. I started in in door to door sales. I sold water softeners and encyclopedias and I'm like, there's gotta be a a better way to do this, you know. And and then I found attraction marketing. I'm like, now this is a whole lot better. I'd rather put out content and people fall in love with me and then you know, I I just prefer this. This is this is so much so much better. But but the truth is that you know, AI helps us position and amplify our expertise. And that's, you know, what we're doing for clients is what we do for ourselves. But it changes the sales dynamic because that that customer does come to us. And and I I I laughingly tell people all the time, the the the prospect that that I almost don't like Is the one that just clicked the ad showed up on my calendar and and is like, now tell me what you guys do. I almost want to kick back into the field and say, no, go spend about six months in our funnel and then come back. Cause you haven't bought into us yet, you don't have a clue who we are, you don't know the value, you you you're just price shopping at this point. And Even if you sign, you're probably gonna be a pill. I'd almost rather you not. I'd rather you buy into the value, I'd rather you understand what problems we do solve and what we don't solve, and then come back.

Jordan Lally:19:53
Yeah, because then that entire call is like an education call, not really a what's your problem, can we solve it? You know, it's more like educating them on what we do, what problems we solve, the value we add. No, I I totally totally get that philosophy. Question at for for your attraction marketing piece, what type of content do you typically put out?

Carl Willis:19:56
Yeah.

Carl Willis:20:13
So we do podcasts, we do a lot of YouTube videos, we do ebooks, we do white papers, blog posts. I mean, we're just constantly cranking out content. And and this is kind of a an interesting thing, Jordan. I think in business today, businesses almost have to think a little differently. And and in some respects, you become a media company first.

And you monetize with whatever it is your service is. you know, and and that's really what we are. We have become a media company that we make our money by delivering marketing and growth partnership services. But but really we produce a lot of media content. we educate, we you know, I've got prospects that jump on calls with me and tell me, I've got a study group that listens to your podcast every week and we dissect it. we download your white papers and we go through those and we, you know, and so you realize that I am becoming a thought leader to my industry, and that's as much of what I do as running this marketing company. which is kind of a mind shift. you know, it didn't used to be that way, but in today's world you almost have to operate that way and and even the remodeling companies we serve are finding that in some ways they have to be a media company as much as they have to be a remodeling contractor. show showing and telling, you know, what they do. Hey, here's the new bathroom we just did, and here's the latest kitchen we did and and You know, and so in today's world, in some ways we have to be that way.

Jordan Lally:22:10
That is so interesting how you said we're a media company first and we monetize based on we we monetize whatever the hell our primary service is. I was speaking with a few gentlemen the other day, and they are they're in the real estate space. And they said Ryan Sirhan, the the fucking billionaire guy that does a lot of real estate transactions, cool, glad you know him. He says the exact same thing. Like, dude, we're a media company.

We just happen to sell real estate. Like I make content 24/7. Like I have a full-time videographer. They follow me everywhere. I sit down and make content three times a week. Like, and they just content, content, content. And that has led to like billions of dollars in transactions. So and but he's he says verbatim what you say. We're a media company first. And like if you if you start hearing the same thing over and over again, it's like you should look into that. So I think that's why I'm saying it out loud. we make

Carl Willis:22:53
Yeah.

Jordan Lally:23:07
Podcast content, course blog post. I am beating myself up every day for not sitting down in front of the camera and making like educational content on what we do, why we do it this way, the results we deliver, whatever. I mean, maybe it's the founder syndrome of like I'm busy doing other shit, but like I don't no excuses, right? Do the damn freaking thing. but but the podcast that you have, is it per a personal podcast or like a a a business podcast?

Carl Willis:23:34
I know I well I actually have three of them. So when I when I say we're a media company, yeah, yeah, there's yeah, there they're I have one for each vertical and then I have a personal one. but you know, s same same thing. It's podcasts are the big driver, YouTube's the big driver, but I I'm I'm a fan of of work smarter not hard.

Jordan Lally:23:37
sure, okay. Busy there, busy there.

Carl Willis:24:02
So so every blog post becomes a podcast, every podcast is a video, so so nothing gets wasted, everything gets repurposed somehow, somehow.

Jordan Lally:24:14
I like that. A blog post becomes a YouTube video, a YouTube video can become a blog post and you can even condense it down shorter into written written like LinkedIn and X posts. Damn Carl, you're putting me on some matchy levels of game right now, dude. Fucking thank you.

Carl Willis:24:26
Yeah. Yeah. No no nothing gets wasted.

Jordan Lally:24:30
I appreciate that, man. Shit. and then correct me if I'm wrong. So the verticals we have insurance and then B2B, right? Are you showing up in a lot of search results? The the sales call that you had earlier, was he was he a witches hall guy?

Carl Willis:24:44
Mm-hmm.

No, he's from Saint Louis.

Jordan Lally:24:49
He's from St. Louis and he's still found even though you're you're in Wichita. How do you

Carl Willis:24:53
Yeah, we have we have clients all over the country.

Jordan Lally:24:56
So Nashley, s prick yeah. How how d how do you think he found you?

Carl Willis:25:01
chat GPT is what he said.

Jordan Lally:25:04
Maybe right.

Jordan Lally:25:09
I'm trying to ask like what what type of like content do you think l is on the internet that led him to find you in Wichita? Maybe that's a horrible question. Hopefully you can understand what I'm trying to ask.

Carl Willis:25:20
We we have we have worked very hard to dominate lots of lots of thought leadership topics. So you know that's one of the things that that we have really focused on is what is our audience asking and how do we get in front of it? And then as Google began to make their big shifts this year.

Towards agentics search, we really jumped in front of that and said, Okay, what do we need to be talking about to stay in front of that? we want to be the thought leaders in that. And so we really ran in front of that. So when the CEO of Google began making his interviews around March, we put out white papers when Google did I.O. twenty twenty six in May, we put out another white paper and then I did multiple webinars talking about what is a Gentex search, what does it look like, how does it work, demonstrated it, you know, so just really rode that wave hard and made sure we were the front runners in that conversation.

Jordan Lally:26:43
No, that's a very smart play. Very smart play. Let's see, you are clearly the expert in this field. For a new guy that's up and coming that, you know, is looking to get their business off the ground, what would you what's like one piece of advice that you would tell to kind of get to the level that you're at here today?

Carl Willis:27:02
Yeah, I think that the biggest thing is is there's really two things. Number one is figure out number one who you are. if you don't know who you are, then it's gonna be hard to figure out what your message is to the marketplace. and and so get clear on who you are first and foremost. And then secondarily figure out who is your most profitable customer, who do you want to work with? and and get clear on those two things and then start engineering from there. you know if you know who you are and the value you bring, then as you figure out who that most profitable customer is for you, it's easy to start then engineering and and what can I put together that's valuable in the marketplace.

Jordan Lally:27:57
That's that's definitely good advice. I feel like a lot of people try to serve everyone and when you serve everyone you simultaneously aren't a good fit for anyone, really.

Carl Willis:28:06
That's it. That's it. And and that was even you know, this last sales call. He he was talking to one other company and they were a a marketing company that serves everybody. And so his question to me was, you know, what are your thoughts? And I said, Well, the buying cycle for somebody considering a hundred thousand dollar home remodeling project is a lot different from somebody that needs an air conditioning repair guy because their air conditioner just quit. and and so I understand your market better because that's who we deal with. I said the guy that's running marketing for the chiropractor, the bowling alley and the heating and air company simultaneously doesn't understand your buyer. that's all I think about.

Jordan Lally:28:39
Right.

Carl Willis:29:01
and so there's a difference. and so, you know, that made sense to him. And and and just those little things give competitive advantages.

Jordan Lally:29:15
absolutely. If you're we the The former CMO of Taco Bell and fucking eBay, really, really like legend in the marketing space, Kip Knight. And he said, You know, your marketing and your positioning in the marketplace is A1 spot on when the prospect says, You had me at hello. Basically, what that means is they read your website and it's like this, they are so defined as to who they help and how they help them that this is exactly. what I was looking for, I'm I I I just now found you guys. Like a and w when you're so specialized and like have a really defined process, you are the go to expert. And when you're the go to expert, you can five X, ten X price overnight because where else are they gonna go, you know?

Carl Willis:29:52
That's it.

Carl Willis:30:05
That's it. That's it. I mean it makes all the all the difference in the world. And I'm I'm telling guys all the time, I said, you know, I understand your buyer and you do too. I said, You're Susie homeowner is is sitting on her toilet at seven in the morning scrolling Pinterest looking for bathroom remodeling ideas. And they start laughing. And I said, I get that. You get that. I said, But the guy mo you know marketing the bowling alley, he doesn't get that. Mm-hmm.

Jordan Lally:30:35
No, right, right, right. Carl, it's it's been a pleasure having you on, my man. if they wanted to learn more about AI and your services, where can they find you?

Carl Willis:30:44
Yeah, probably the easiest thing to do is go to simplicity marketing llc dot com or you can t connect with me on LinkedIn and you can find me Carl Willis. I'm easy to find.

Jordan Lally:30:56
Yes, sir. Carl, thanks again for hopping on, man. Audience. Till next time.

Carl Willis:31:00
Hey, thanks, Jordan.