Mark Herre on White Label SEO and the No Rank, No Pay Model

0:00 · Introduction

Jordan:0:00
Welcome back to the High Ticket AI Systems podcast. Everyone, please welcome the one and only Mr. Mark Harry Mark. How you doing today, my friend?

Mark Herre:0:07
Hey, it's good to see you Jordan. Thanks.

Jordan:0:10
Likewise. Yes, sir. Now the company name is SEO game. I think everyone can kind of guess what the hell you do, but I think they're going to get it wrong because I don't think they know the full extent to exactly what you do. So please explain to us what you do and who and who is for me.

0:27 · What is white label SEO and who is it for?

Mark Herre:0:27
Absolutely. games been around for 30 years as a white label SEO company, search engine optimization for the SEO company. As a white label SEO, it makes me or differentiates my services from a traditional SEO company who works directly with owners of websites. I work behind the scenes for digital agencies.

Jordan:0:52
I have a question. How did that transpire? Why work with agencies and offer white label services opposed to going directly to the source? Like when did, was that always the business model or did that change?

1:06 · How Mark built a 30-year SEO business from scratch

Mark Herre:1:06
30 years ago, I had another company, even though my SEO company, SEO Games, has been around since 1996. At the same time, I had another company called an internet service provider where I had technology, where I fixed fax machines and got everyone that $9.99 dial-up service. That's what it is. You remember those? Dial-up.

Jordan:1:29
You're there.

Hell yeah, man! Hell yeah!

Mark Herre:1:34
So I sold it. I had a partner. I joined one Chamber of Commerce. Then I joined a second Chamber of Commerce in St. George, Utah near the Las Vegas area. I serviced that area and I also serviced Cedar City. The purpose of that technology company was to sell a $9.99 Lightning Speed dial-up service. I joined the chambers to sell and pitch slap every person about it. One person wrote me in.

He was a member. He says, no one cares, Mark, about your stupid $9.99 service. In fact, you joined a chamber for relationships. There's a lot of people who probably would love to build a relationship with your services and what you do and offer. It was enough to allow me to think and reflect about my business model, where I was going, that I sold my portion of it. I got out of the technology business. and created an SEO company to service those relationships I had in the digital, in the, in the chambers. Uh, they were digital agencies. were travel bureaus. They were web developers and designers. And what I learned in 1996 is they did, they needed a partner that did SEO. And that's how I became a white label SEO company because I had technology behind me. knew how to. switch servers and get IP redirecting going and all of that black hat SEO back in the day. That was what it was called. And I was a partner for digital marketing agencies, which caused me to move my little, you know, go from that St. George area to Denver, to the dot-com bubble. And that's how I became a service provider for SEO companies. And I have been ever since. So fast forward to 2026, I'm still doing the same.

3:31 · How Mark and Jordan became neighbors in Utah

Jordan:3:31
Gotcha. Really quick, so I know for the audience, Mark and I are basically neighbors. So I live about 30 minutes outside of Salt Lake City and Mark lives about what, 45 minutes outside?

Mark Herre:3:43
Same distance as it takes you to get to Salt Lake is about the same distance it takes you to go south to Provo area. You know where that is.

Jordan:3:54
Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. yeah. Just wanted to throw it out there. Have you always lived in this area or have you? Because you brought up St. George and the Colorado Chamber of Commerce. So I'm just curious.

Mark Herre:3:59
No.

Mark Herre:4:06
No, yeah, St. George, Utah, Cedar City, Las Vegas area. But before that, while I was in the 90s in 1996, I was a 28 year old single man and I'd lived for 28 years in Seattle, Washington. I only moved to Utah when I was 28 in the 90s. so I was a bookkeeper even long before forever as a bookkeeper.

A bookkeeper is somebody who just does temp work behind the scenes for other businesses. I got tired of that. Especially I was single and I lived in Seattle for so many years. If you've ever lived where it rains and dumps on you and you're a single guy, you know all about what it's like to get dumped.

Jordan:4:55
Got you. Got you. think I think I get the picture of what you're painting there, my friend. Back to SEO. So how does one even like let other clients know or let potential clients know about your business? Because it's.

5:12 · Why networking is still the number one way to grow this business

Mark Herre:5:12
Yeah. Like I started out as a networker, a connector in chamber of commerce, pitching, pitching a service. And when somebody wrote me in and says about relationships, that just, I never wanted to sell another thing ever again. I felt like if it's about relationships and that's how you grow and scale your business, I want to create a business that is about relationships. So as a partner for digital agencies.

That's been the only way I've been able to ever get introductions to digital agencies is through networking groups. In 2028, there's a networking group for every color, shape and size, right? And so I'm really good at it in high level networking groups and I pay a lot of money for that, but it's still the number one way that people are going to introduce me. to a single digital agency, web designer, and that's hopefully going to spark a conversation where they're gonna kick the tires and try out one of my 30-day trials to get a website ranking.

6:25 · How SEO actually works: ranking a website from scratch

Jordan:6:25
Gotcha. Now talk to me about how you actually execute. know there's so many things that go into SEO. What, let's just take my company as an example, okay? What are some things you would do to optimize to try to help me rank number one? And I sell basically lead generation to B2B companies and I sell nationally.

Mark Herre:6:48
Yeah, yours is going to be a more difficult assignment to achieve keywords like that because yours are not a local set down Riverton, know, even Salt Lake City. mean, it's how about if I pivot a little bit to a company like yours that let's say you added web design. Maybe you sold SEO services as well.

7:15 · Why you should rank your own website first for social proof

Jordan:7:15
For sure.

Mark Herre:7:15
You want to keep the tires in the first website you probably want to try out is maybe your own. You're going to do that for two purposes. You're going to want social proof and you're going to want leads. Social proof is saying if you were in Salt Lake City, I got my website ranking for Salt Lake City Web Design. Salt Lake City SEO. That would give you so much social proof that you would 10 times your business in a way you give you such, you know, momentum. going forward that you could tell every person in Salt Lake City area, every business, I got my website done right. I know what it's like to be patient month to month to see how it works. And I'm number one because I paid a price. You too can do the same thing. I can make this work, but we don't have to wait for so long. If you're the roofer, the plumber, the HVAC, we'll get you done in 30 days. If you're the bricks and mortar company like the Med Spa. the lawyer, the dentist, the chiropractor, these bricks and mortar and home services, they deserve to be number one. It only should take 30 days. Now, the process of getting started is wanting those keywords to achieve number one rankings, which is going to get attributions of your more web traffic. Being number one is going to give you more traffic. It's going to give you more, it's going to attribute, SEO rankings are going to attribute more phone calls. and leads, which is going to equal more customers. So it's all going to be about the reporting from then on out, month to month. Is being number one, attributing into more phone calls on web traffic and can I continue to, you know, statistically check to see if I'm getting those results. So I'm getting more customers. That's what a good SEO partner will do for you.

9:08 · The "no rank, no pay" model explained

Mark Herre:9:08
Right. Well, I have, I've been doing 30 day trials now for 30 years. So the purpose of the trial is to kick the tires and try it out. Not in the form of maybe, you know, you're going to Costco and checking out a cookie, you know, I'll probably buy. No, you won't. You probably not going to buy the big bulky cookies, but you, you, you, you definitely want to kick, you know, try it out, you know, maybe later on, maybe it's not the right time to buy those cookies.

But for SEO, there's a lot of people that would, you know, they're losing sleep. Something that keeps them up at night is their competitors dominating in the field of they're getting all the market share of the traffic and phone calls and leads to equal more customers. And that's why they keep growing. And you're stuck going, boy, if I just had an SEO partner that would put his money where his mouth is and actually show me the results. Well, that's kind of performance SEO that...

I call no rank, no pay. I've coined that term now for all these years. And it just generally means I only get paid when results hit expectation levels. For the digital agency, I only get paid when you get paid. So if the digital agency has a relationship with the roof of the plumber, the HVAC, or the dentist, the lawyer, the chiropractor, or the med spa, then I only get paid when they get their affairs in order in 30 days to get that lifetime relationship. going with those business owners with websites. Once they get the business relationship going and the trust is building, that digital agency will have a lifetime client that will pay on a retainer month to month. And so that's how I also help digital agencies.

10:55 · Should agencies try the free trial on their own site or a client's?

Jordan:10:55
Got you. So let me get some clarity here. I own an SEO agency. Okay. You're offering me a free trial on behalf of my clients or on behalf of me. What do you, what do you encourage? What do you encourage?

Mark Herre:11:06
Well, the human nature in every digital marketing agency always begins with themself. Oh, I've got to be able to try it out first with you, with my website. That is human nature for 30. I've heard the old analogy of this. Have you ever heard of that shoe cobbler guy that never has enough affordability and money to actually treat his own kids and get shoes on them? They're running around.

Jordan:11:27
Yes!

11:36 · B2B vs. B2C SEO: why the results look completely different

Mark Herre:11:36
the floor with bare feet, know, and they just can't afford my services, but one day I will. No, they just give me that analogy. Now that is just typical human nature of a digital agency saying, I need to try it out first. I have no problem with that. It's just statistically, it's incorrect to actually get excited about doing that campaign because they're expecting either two things. Like I mentioned earlier, they want. leads from it right away. And this is a B2B project for them. And it's not the same as working with a client. And then they also want social proof. Either way, they have to have the right heart into it. But they can't expect like overnight expect. For the SEO company in Houston that wants number one rankings for Houston SEO to get social proof and get lots of leads, yes, it will.

But it isn't the same if you were the plumber in Houston and you instantly got a number one rankings with the massive amount of volume that goes into B to C company, business to consumer versus B to B. There's a huge drop off of traffic for the web designer or the SEO company in Houston, Texas for being number one ranking versus the amount of phone calls a home service company could get because their volume is just. incredible and it'll just blow them away that they've never even experienced that their phone's going to ring off the hook. So I generally say it's a flawed strategy to think you're going to get a lot of customers. We can still do it, but you have to understand it's not apples and oranges. You can't compare.

Jordan:13:21
Understood and that's essentially my question. How does one become number one? How does a B2C company a plumber in Houston? I'm number one you're talking about not when you said volume You're not referring to the volume of workload that it takes but the volume of traffic and calls, correct?

Mark Herre:13:28
Yeah.

13:38 · High volume vs. high ticket keywords what's the difference?

Mark Herre:13:38
I'm talking about, yeah, high volume keywords are based on what's called empirical evidence, data. The data backs it up that there's a lot of search volume for the plumber Houston, plumber near me, plumber contract, emergency plumber, and especially big, and then there's high ticket. So there's high volume and high ticket like the plumber, emergency plumber is a great keyword for a plumber.

Dental implant is a great high volume keyword for a dentist versus just dentist. The reason dental implants, that's a high volume keyword or a big ticket keyword that I apologize, is because a dental implant client for a dentist is a $20,000 butt in the chair. So they're gonna want a little bit of a hybrid because if the dentist is getting $20,000 butts in the chair every week from being number one ranking in, let's go back to Houston.

Because we don't want you we always like to say Houston you have a problem. So So Houston SEO Company wants to be number one rank for social proof. He also wants to get leads Houston dentists once That $20,000 button the chair for dental implant which is a great procedure for a dentist because he can probably even get more than $20,000 and if he's getting them every week, I mean

Jordan:14:41
Mm-hmm.

15:06 · How a dentist gets $20,000 clients every week from one keyword

Mark Herre:15:06
He's going to grow his staff. He's going to have better opportunity to get in and he wants, he's going to reward that digital agency a lifetime contract. And that agency is going to get rewarded and paid a lot, like a thousand dollars to $2,000 a month in just doing nothing. Absolutely nothing. The dental marketing agency that works with me to help them with their clients.

All they have to do is smile and keep those 10 deliverable reports that they keep sending them every month. If they keep getting that email every week that talks about the 10 deliverables and it's all about attribution and it's all about how their SEO is improving, their AI search volume is improving, AI search recommendations are improving, the grid map and the heat map are improving, and all of this is equally more customers. The dentist is going to just say, You know what, appreciate, don't even look at those emails anymore. I already know how good my business is thriving because I'm number one and they rewarded the marketing agency with a lifetime relationship.

16:14 · What are the 10 deliverables and how do they work?

Jordan:16:14
How exactly, what are the 10 deliverables? How exactly do you work? Because I'm still trying to imagine me becoming number one in the process that it takes to actually achieve that. I, let's say I live in a small town like Riverton and I want to become the number one dentist in Riverton.

Mark Herre:16:19
Ten deliverables.

Mark Herre:16:33
Yeah, if you were a dentist getting 10 deliverables from me, your digital agency would receive the email that I send them every two weeks. Now the agency would decide whether they want to hold off on sending you a weekly, bi-weekly email, a weekly email, or a monthly email. I just make sure that my email goes out to 10. So the reports that I call deliverables are in one email that has 10 clicks in it that go to different components. of the dashboard that I've created. The dashboard shows three large ranking tools. The first one is the zip code ranking tool. Where do you show up in your zip code, in your bordering zip code? It doesn't show very far out in the 20 mile radius because we know even if you're in Riverton, we know that there's a lot of Sandy and Draper and there's a lot of zip codes in those other suburb cities of Salt Lake, right?

And so you've got hermene, and you've got all the doctors living on, you know, all of the, just, my goodness. West Jordan, I mean, West Jordan has per capita more dentists on that road, Redwood Road. If you ever drive up Redwood Road, there are more dentists that live on that river, I think in the country.

Jordan:17:39
South Jordan and you know.

Jordan:17:49
But yeah, that's a long road.

17:58 · The heat map and zip code ranking tool explained

Mark Herre:17:58
Did you know that? You live right where there's more dentists. So your competitors are all dentists. Who doesn't want to set up a practice on Redwood Road, right? That's just a beautiful place to be able to be a dentist, right? Everybody knows that all the dentists are all along that road, all the way up to North Salt Lake. Now, it's my job to get a number one ranking and then...

The dentist sees the deliverables, how the digital agency wants to send them. I just send the digital agency 10 deliverables every week. They click on the links. They see the updates on the citation building. They see the updates on the, we're doing in Google business, all the SEO tech work that we're doing, all the updates that we're doing on the website. But the three main reports that we send are the zip code ranking, the zip codes ranking, which is called the heat map.

You want to see where you are in a grid map, like a 20 mile radius. Obviously you want to tap into South Jordan. Obviously you want to go into her and then Draper and all those areas. You want to see where you rank in this Northwest, Northeast corridors, the South, Southwest. And you want to see how you're showing up because if that radius is getting lit by green arrows, number one rankings.

You're going to get more phone calls from that because that means you're breaking into all these proximities and you're cracking into these places that you want to tap into. And that's the only way to do that as a dentist. So you get more, more exposure from your Google business profile. Then there's the AI search recommendation reporting. Most of my reporting now is in the AI search. AI search recommendations is being able to identify at least 60 recommendations of keywords searches that are a little bit different than traditional searches. But AI search recommendations is like saying best dental implant dentist. You know, using keywords like top, best, those are recommendation keywords that AI searches are getting the most of. And then, you know, different types of procedures, obviously. So if you are a candidate for, let's just say you know you need to see a dentist.

20:23 · How AI search (ChatGPT, Perplexity, Gemini) is changing SEO

Mark Herre:20:23
as a customer knows that they need to see a dentist, they're searching, I don't know, AI mode, perplexity, Gemini, ChachiBT, one of those modes. And they're looking for like a certain type of procedure that they know that they need for a dental implant procedure. Maybe it's a full mouth or a half mouth or some type of, know, there's different types of branded. dental procedures. So if they're looking for those types of terms and that dentist has content on the website, well, I know how to make that content get recommended in AI search. And that's the way search is going. I mean, in 2027, where are we going to be? You know, right now it's still a little bit 90 % coming from Google and 10 % coming from AI searches. So we still better, you know, take care of our Google ranking. Traditional, but...

AI keeps on the march and it's getting more and more, it's cutting into where it could be all 100 % by five years.

21:31 · Why SEO is more important now than ever not dead

Jordan:21:31
You know, that's very interesting that you say that because a lot of these people on YouTube say, SEO is dead. SEO is dead. Check this out. I think SEO is actually more important now than ever because we have LLMs, because we have AI overviews, because we have cloud chat, et cetera, et cetera. And I know SEO, traditional SEO has a major impact on LLMs.

However, there are certain things that like schema markups on obviously this is page SEO that maybe five years ago, a years back, wasn't that important. Now it's more important than ever, right? That because that is exactly what these LLMs are looking for. If they're trying to cite your page, if they're trying to gather information, they're looking at the first 25 % of your markup schema on the back of your freaking

Mark Herre:22:13
Absolutely.

22:27 · The full SEO process: week by week breakdown

Jordan:22:27
you're off page SEO, right now, Mark, riddle me this, my friend. So you send them the deliverables, but the question I want to know is what exactly are you doing from an SEO standpoint, not for the SEO company, but for the roofer or for the plumber or for the dentist. Like if you don't,

Mark Herre:22:49
Yeah, there is a process that is about setup first. Currently, right now is the first time I've ever had to add a $59 setup fee that identifies what we do in the first week one, week two, and it lays it all out there and gives a full SEO tech report, which goes through and cleans up schema, cleans up Google Search Console errors, and it cleans up a lot of the core vitals that are done in GT metrics, which is most what digital agencies understand. The average plumber or HVAC wouldn't understand those. But we do a complete SEO tech cleanup with that first week one, week two, and that will enable us to then put the rest of the information into the reporting tools and get all that reporting, all those 10 deliverables set up.

Week 3, week 4 is when the trial ends of my 30 days. The trial is still a trial to achieve number one rankings. So they're risking $59 for a number one ranking that will achieve what they're hoping for that is more attribution for being number one. Attributing the number one ranking to get more phone calls and web traffic is what I like to say.

Jordan:24:16
Catch you.

24:17 · What happens after the 30-day trial ends

Mark Herre:24:17
Then they decide if it's worth to continue on with that roadmap of the, we first focus on the zip code because you really have to focus on the zip code first to get all the rankings number one over the zip code and just the neighboring zip codes. But we really wanna know where we are in a 20 mile radius. That takes month after month.

The AI search recommendations for sometimes 60 keyword. We start with 30 and we keep going up to 60 recommendations with our reporting tool. We want to hit 60 by three months. That takes the month to month. But the first 30 days is a free trial to show number one rankings. You decide if it's going to be something that you want to continue moving forward to get an expansion of.

20 mile radius in the heat map and also implement the AI search strategy. can report and give you a blueprint and show you what we need to do, but we're not going to do any of the work if you're not going to pay us the fee after the 30 day trial.

25:30 · How often does the free trial actually convert?

Jordan:25:30
Yeah, how do you know your metrics on offering free trials to individuals?

Mark Herre:25:35
Yeah, it works really good when there's a paying client involved. Almost like 100%. If an agency comes to me and says, have a client, they're paying us money. This is a roofing company in Scottsdale, And there's a lot of roofing companies and it's very, very lucrative for this roofing company to be number one and have that word.

Scottsdale roofing because there's repairs, there's metal roof, there's maintenance, there's just new roofing and then quotes and bids and it's commercial and it's you know residential. There is a lot of money going around in Scottsdale.

26:21 · Why Scottsdale, Arizona is one of the best markets for SEO

Jordan:26:21
I heard recently, sorry to interrupt, about Scottsdale. It is Beverly Hills in the desert. Cole Gordon is the guy in the space next to Alex. He basically said that freaking Scottsdale, Arizona is Beverly Hills in LA. He was in a podcast recently with this other guy that sells like a 10K plus fitness coaching offer. And...

Mark Herre:26:23
Yeah.

Jordan:26:45
He was like, dude, my first time in Scottsdale, I see like Lamborghini's, freaking Ferraris, freaking Rolls Royces, like pretty women, pretty guys, whatever the case is. And it's like, that's Beverly Hills, LA, but in the desert. Continue. Scottsdale has money.

Mark Herre:27:00
so great, great, great place to have a home service that, know, you're doing commercial residential roofing. And if you can achieve a number one ranking, you're going to be able to afford the digital agency. But if the digital agency is not producing results and, and, and I'm hoping one of my clients hears that, that I actually did this for Scottsdale Arizona. You hear this Ryan? I got your client number one ranking in Scottsdale Arizona for.

Roofing there's no complaints there. There shouldn't be any complaints. So so pay up My 30-day trial ended by the way, Ryan, I'm speaking to my client if he's listening on the podcast so Yeah, yeah, I do I take a risk and then I have to sit there and play games with digital agencies Sometimes where they're getting paid and they're like going three hundred dollars four hundred dollars

Jordan:27:46
So high five.

Mark Herre:27:59
What is it? You paid the setup fee, we got you number one rankings, let's move forward. So there are times where it's discouraging, where you're like thinking you easily can win this client over because he, I got excited because he had three other digital agencies that he runs. I have one agency that has five agencies in the Chicago area, Chicagoland area, five digital marketing agency.

He's registered with 20 chambers of commerce. He has a guy that he hires that just goes to all these chamber of commerce. All he does is spend all his day just trying to pitch his SEO services for us, for us. Five SEO comes in in Chicago and like he said, Wisconsin. And you know, these are kinds of agencies I help, right? Because they give me a lot of opportunity because they don't do what I do.

They're so focused in their growth model with the legacy SEO and digital marketing agency that they forget that there's little things that they're not doing because my package is so, so beneficial for them to grow and scale. I'm hoping the agency with five different agencies with five different Google business profiles that, you know, and he's got 20 chambers of commerce that he attends. I'm just hoping he can just like go.

You know what? This is working. I can maybe double that, right? Because he already knows how to do it, right? So anyway, yeah.

29:33 · What digital agencies are missing that Mark provides

Jordan:29:33
You said something about The Chamber of Commerce guys focus on growing the business, you do something that they don't do. What is that exactly?

Mark Herre:29:44
I was just saying that the digital agency joined these chambers of commerce to pitch everybody in the chamber about how wonderful they are when it comes to web designing. Cause if you join a chamber of commerce as a digital agency, chances are you're going in there as a web design, a full service agency will handle your social, will hand to your SEO, will handle your pay clicks, will hand, but they always get the majority of their, their high ticket.

Products that they sell is always going to be a web design project where they you know, they're shoulders with the mold company and the mold inspector company in there they're rubbing shoulders with the plumbers and the HVAC guys that you know, they build trust and they're like, okay Yeah, I need to build me a new website and you know, there's ten thousand dollars that they get in their pocket, right? They get high margins for web design So there you see it.

Jordan:30:46
But how does one rain in the room?

I don't think you answered the question I'm trying to get to. What exactly do you do, Blog post. How did the guy in Scottsdale, Arizona, his real name, get number one. Did you create blog post? Did you do not like what exactly did you do for this guy to rank number

Mark Herre:30:59
Yeah.

31:08 · The exact steps that got a Scottsdale roofer to number one

Mark Herre:31:08
simple. Simple. And the 30-day trial is over, Ryan. He's not in Scottsdale but his client is. No. 30-day trials, simple. You just know how to make sure that the Google business profile is fully optimized. And then you match that with a website. to make sure that the website matches the message that you meant, you put all the energy in the Google Business Profile. As a manager, that's the number one thing anything anybody can do is match the content of the website to the Google Business Profile and know how to do it better than anyone else. That's why I offer 30-day trials.

Jordan:31:56
Okay, gotcha. What are some things that you're looking forward to in the next like six to 12 months with AI?

32:00 · The new 10-deliverable reporting tool and what is next

Mark Herre:32:00
I'm looking forward to people really loving my new reporting tool that has 10 deliverables. That's unheard of. 10 deliverables to help story tell. I'm looking forward to the feedback I'm getting already, which is half and half because you're giving, I usually only have one deliverable for ever and now I have 10, but I'm getting my first taste of feedback with my agencies of the 10.

And sometimes there's a little question marks here and there and it's improving, but it's still, they click on the link, they see it, and then they're like, I don't get it, Mark. Can you explain it? And then once they get it, they get it. But I'm looking forward to them improving my tool to give the deliverables a little bit more intuitive instructions. That's just growing pains right now and all of it's just recent.

So I put up my new website about three weeks ago to show all the offering to basically people can go to my website and look at what gets done, the flow process of every week, what we do in the 30 day trial, how we're doing it after the first month, what we're doing consistently. Here's examples. So I'm looking forward to all of this being explained better. Of course, it's a little growing pain, but yeah, once I...

Once I go through those growing pains, I'm going to be rock solid as the only SEO company that really has something different from everyone else that offers white label SEO.

33:36 · Where to find Mark and book a call

Jordan:33:36
No, absolutely. And where can they find you if they didn't want to reach out about your services?

Mark Herre:33:40
Yeah, they can find me at seogame.com and they can learn a little bit about the flow process and the 30 day trial. They can book time to talk to me and we can chat, you know, if you want to click the calendar link on my website and yeah, they can learn a little bit about the services that will affect their livelihood.

Jordan:34:06
Gotcha. Well, Mark, thank you so much for joining us, my man. I brought you on because nobody else offers what you offer, at least not to my knowledge. I think what you're offering is a pretty good service. So if you do own an SEO company out there and you want some white label hacks, definitely hit up Mark Harry. Mark is definitely the guy. Again, thanks for joining us. Audience, we'll talk to you soon.