Jim Fisher on Selling One Thing to One Niche at $900K a Month

Jordan Lally:0:00
Welcome back to the high ticket AI systems podcast. Everyone please welcome the one and only Mr. Jim Fisher. Jim, how you doing today, my friend?

Jim Fisher:0:08
I'm doing great. Glad to be here.

Jordan Lally:0:10
Yes, sir. We're happy to have you. Now, for those of us that don't know the name just quite yet, can you please explain to us what your offer is and who you guys sell to?

Jim Fisher:0:19
Yeah, we work in the financial services space, particularly at the second half, the final stage of retirement, which is how do I turn all this money that I've saved into the retirement I expect, whether it be income planning or other problems that come up when you're actually retired. And so we focus purely on that segment and we help people who have their insurance license or our investment advisors, selling into that marketplace, generating leads through a proprietary process, and more importantly, helping them convert those leads. Because most people grow up in the business of being a financial advisor, retirement planner, selling face to face. And they've never realized or learned the difference and nuances that help you be successful selling on a screen, as opposed to at a table in your office or somebody's home.

Jordan Lally:1:19
lot of nuances, a lot of differences. However, the ability to scale up remote sales, opposed to shaking hands, old school face to face, not saying it doesn't work, but just the level of scale you can unlock would be fantastic. This might be a silly question, Jim, but what's the tan that you're working with? Are there a lot of life insurance, or excuse me, insurance agents that work on the financial side of...

Jim Fisher:1:41
Yeah, I mean, you're not wrong. The license that is needed from the insurance side of the equation for retirement planning where there's usually selling annuities or things of that nature is an actual life insurance license. And then often, people that we work with will be duly registered so they can handle like the no risk insurance part of the portfolio and the at risk investment part of the portfolio in the marketplace. often they have. both of those licenses. The marketplace, mean, just on the insurance side of it is probably at least a half a million people who are actively using their license. There's probably well over a million of people who have one, but maybe not are using it. The same thing would be true if you just look at the advisory space, probably over a million people, a million advisors.

Jordan Lally:2:32
man, you got plenty of runway.

Jim Fisher:2:34
Yeah, one of my friends who's very successful, you know, completely different market opportunity. They serve purely orthodontist. And so there's only a few thousand of those, know, maybe like somewhere between five and 8,000. So you have to get more creative because you'll tap out just running Facebook ads.

Jordan Lally:2:56
No, right, right. Yeah, anything with over 100K for your tam, Facebook ads, Instagram ads, that's the way to go, baby. You can squeeze so much juice out of that. I assume that's kind of what you help your clients with, right? You guys run meta ads for them on our first call. We get meta ads, you drive traffic, you help them from a CRO standpoint, right? Turning interested leads into actual clients. Do you mind going into more specifics on that, friend, that process there?

Jim Fisher:3:03
Yeah.

Jim Fisher:3:25
Yeah, I mean, so one of the things that we're because we're like so like niche down in that, you know, we don't just serve an advisor, an insurance agent, but someone who specifically wants to be a virtual retirement professional. And so that informs our ability to focus and generate a unique outcome. So from an advertising standpoint, you know, we develop if you're in marketing, chances are if you're watching or listening to this podcast, you are on that journey, high ticket or agency, right? And so you're probably aware of the idea of a unique mechanism, comes from, I believe, is Eugene Schwartz, right? And it's that unique way that you can deliver a result. And by defining that unique way, that mechanism, you're able to generate more belief in the audience you're marketing to in their ability to achieve the result. And so, With us, we actually develop a unique mechanism. have currently nine of them. They're brands in the marketplace where we brand the solution to a clearly defined problem as it relates to retirement planning. And so the reason we're able to create a lot of success for the advisors that we work with is because we create this branded solution. For example, a personal pension account.

We have a brand called personalpensionaccounts.com and we market that brand to consumers who are thinking about, yeah, man, how do I turn my 401k into a pension like my father used to have? And so because we have such a focus, we generate leads of people looking acutely at solving a singular problem. So that starts to transform the approach to the sales process. And not only does it transform the sales process from beginning with the intent. of seeking a solution from the lead that we generate, but also we're able to create a congruent and connected approach to the sales. One that brings the brand into the sales process and diagnosis specifically for that type of problem that the prospect raised their hand for. And that's what allows us to transition somebody from a face-to-face sale into virtual by having a systematic way to sell. And they don't have to kind of go from this really wide conversation.

Jim Fisher:5:40
that often is true in generic retirement planning leads is that somebody is aware of doing something about their retirement. Well, there's a long journey conversationally in a sales process to take somebody from this general awareness to actually implementing a solution. Whereas the people we work with, we make them both problem and solution aware. And so by the time they're on the... phone with our advisor that we licensed the brand to, and that's a unique thing about our model, is that they're seeking something specific. And that really helps the advisor be specific in their entry point to their kind of diagnostic and consultative sales process that we teach, which allows people to be more successful rather than just kind of winging it on every call because every prospect is starting at very different places in their customer journey.

Jordan Lally:6:37
I am fighting so hard not to jump up and down for joy because there's so many full service agencies out there that fail to understand what you just articulated. For everyone listening, Jim, ballpark revenue so I can scream as loud as I possibly can really quick.

Jim Fisher:6:54
We do over 900 a month.

Jordan Lally:6:58
Basically a million dollars a month is what is

Jim Fisher:7:00
Yeah, close. We haven't broken it yet, but we're very close.

Jordan Lally:7:05
0.1 % of businesses according to the Federal Bureau of Labor Statistics actually even hit those numbers. And Jim, you are right there. Everyone listening, do you understand this fricking unique mechanism process between keeping everything consistent with one unique funnel, one specific messaging, one avatar, one solution? When you have one, one, one, one, one, you hit $1 million a month. Like.

For all my full service agency listeners out there, please dial in your USP, your unique mechanism, one avatar that you are solving or that you're helping with one fricking problem that you're delivering to the marketplace. Because you are so specific with your messaging, with the solution that you're providing, your TAM is big enough to help many, many, many, many people. Even if it's a few thousand like your orthodontic friend. And you said he's wildly successful because he's helping one. one niche with one problem. Like that is music to my ears, Jim. Thank you for listening to my tangent, talk to us about, you said you developed nine over the years. Did you always start with nine or did you, talk to us about that journey.

Jim Fisher:8:18
Yeah, so I mean, we mastered one and at the time, know, we, you know, as we were finding our focus to take one step back, you know, to the, you know, the, the thoughts you were sharing there about focus. think so many people, they think when they, when they focus, they kind of narrow their field of view and therefore limit their opportunity. But, the opposite is true.

Jordan Lally:8:46
Yes.

Jim Fisher:8:46
is that when you focus, you magnify your power. And the more focused you are, the more premium you can be and more profitable because you solve the problem like nobody else does. You can never get so deep into not only providing the marketing, but also understanding the sales process. If you're trying to be too many things to too many people. And so, you know, I, anytime I talk to somebody about what we do and they're surprised by our level of focus.

I just simply respond with, know, it is our goal to become everything to someone rather than something for everyone. And so in the beginning, you know, I can now say that, you know, I can redefine and repackage what we do in the development of all these unique mechanisms that we license on a protected territory and geographic basis that gives sustainable advantage to our clients. But in the beginning, it was just one campaign that we were trying to get so good at that it delivered a result. And then we realized because of what I just said, that we did not, you know, sell everything to anyone whenever they asked for it. Meaning that once we penetrated a market about 50 % geographically with a proven funnel, one of the brands, the original brand that we started with, we capped it. And so we eventually got to a ceiling of, clients because all of the territories to, you know, that we self inflicted that constraint on, you know, were sold. And so we had to go create a new one. So, you know, it's interesting. I think that there's a lesson in that that you, you know, a lot of people like, say yes to too many things, therefore, they don't become great at anything. And they're, you know, if I were to explain that idea, it's like, you create this constraint in your business, you're like, man, you're limiting your growth and all that stuff. I was like, well, wait till it actually becomes a problem and then you'll solve it. It's like anything, people don't realize there's a lot of value. It certainly helped us along the way in having legitimate scarcity. I'm sorry, that territory is no longer available. That really helped us in a sales conversion of selling our services.

Jim Fisher:11:09
and so, but when we hit the wall of, you know, of scaling, and then we had to go solve the next problem, which is how do we engineer, you know, this type of, result in a new strategy, a new campaign. and, so we systematically did that, but I mean, the journey from the first successful campaign that really, we kind of got that product market fit and went from. you know, $30,000 a month to $200,000 a month and probably like three, four months. Um, from there, it was a long slog to then get good at developing new strategies, new campaigns, new, new, new unique mechanisms that we could prove and then license to others as a service. Um, and so, you know, the, the, the, timeline from the first campaign to the second proven one was probably 18 months.

To the third, another six. Now we generate a new one like every quarter and we're testing multiple. Literally before this call, have a guy that does $25 million a year in new assets, been in the business for decades, is testing one of our new strategies. so we don't, one of the things that we've gotten so good at, the reason why I have the insurance brokerage and the registered investment advisor is because along our journey, selling to our

Jordan Lally:12:21
to

Jim Fisher:12:32
our marketplace, you know, the advisor said, Hey, if you're so good at this, why don't you do it yourself? And I said, okay. So I got licensed and, I got in the trenches and sold, um, you know, many people, like a friend of mine says, goes, yeah, a lot of people just sell the leads and, and you decided to sell to the leads. Um, and the advantage of that is that, you know, we have the moral authority to say it works. Um,

Jordan Lally:12:50
Yeah

Jim Fisher:12:57
And we still do this today, but also as we develop the new strategies, I still get on the calls with, you know, in new strategies. And I also have in-house advisors that are like, you know, kind of sales pros on my team, not independent business owners like the average advisor we serve. And they prove that out. And then I have some of my, you know, higher level clients that I'll roll out. We'll fund all the budgets and everything and get them to test and we'll iterate.

Not only the, go through three phases of validation. Not only do we generate a qualified lead, meaning, and do you make contact with them? Basically is the intent enough that they're going to pick up the phone when you call them and, do they have assets that are worth pursuing? Okay. That's checkpoint number one. Checkpoint number two is do we have a systematic way to get them from call one to call two in our three typical three call sales process? And, check two. And that's more about the integration of a proven sales approach.

And then the third one is do we actually issue business, AKA move assets? Do we actually move assets from this campaign? And we don't license it, you know, offer it as a service to advisors in the marketplace until we've moved at least a million dollars in assets from our campaign. We go through those three phases. And so it really, you know, by the time somebody gets onboarded, it's not theory. This isn't a good idea. It's not just a good lead that's qualified and shows up. but we have an entire documented way to turn that lead specifically with that marketing angle, with that level of problem and solution awareness into a closed client. And not only can we tell you we've done it before, when you get on, you can go literally watch the privacy-edited sales process from call one through close. And so you can sit there over the shoulder with the advisor who proved that campaign and see how they close that deal. So it dramatically changes our ability to create success with people.

Jordan Lally:14:50
Thank you so much for all the insights. want to say one thing really quick. You eat your own cooking and because you eat your own cooking, the marketplace infinitely trusts you more. You're no longer just the lead guy. You're the lead guy that sells his own freaking leads. Immediate trust, immediate authority. So kudos to you. Second thing I want to say is the three-step process, the three-step validation process can work for any offer. You just happen to explain it for your specific business.

What is the mindset of testing new things? Because within, how can I say this? Within every system, there are many steps, many levers that we can pull to increase efficiency and increase throughput, right? So let's talk about step one. When you're testing new creative, testing new offers, what is your approach and maybe your team's approach to really just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks?

Jim Fisher:15:44
Yeah, mean, the reason why we can now engineer results or a new strategy so systematically and repeatedly is because we don't have a spaghetti approach. We literally have an engineered process to it. And so, you know, I learned this a while back. I forget from who, but we first start with testing what we call the magnetic message.

So we're trying to find what is the core idea. A lot of times, you know, you go back to Eugene Swartz, I think, yeah, he or somebody else talks about this, the big idea in the campaign, right? Is it, it Eugene? Yeah. So we're trying to, that's what magnetic message. And the reason I call it the magnetic message is, is it really informs the nature of our testing process. So when we start, all we do is create the most ugly, simple,

Jordan Lally:16:19
One big hit.

I don't know, but I know the one big idea.

Jim Fisher:16:39
you know, single color, white text on a color. Some people call it a color block test. And we run a traffic based ads to probably 20 different ideas that would inform the big idea. So what's the magnetic message that attracts me with a big idea? And the thing is, is like, there's no headline in the Facebook ad. There's nothing but an image with text on it, just a single color image text on it. And we're... the that's where this magnetic message idea comes in. It's like, what is the message that is so magnetic to your ideal prospect that the words alone cause them to engage to click? And so that's step number one. And sometimes we do that because when we're creating a brand, you know, an attraction brand that we we develop, which these are the different mechanisms that you know, our mechanism that Juice Box offers is annuity attraction brands. That's our unique mechanism. We brand the solution to a clear, defined problem that get consumers who have that problem to raise their hand and talk to you, the licensed affiliate in that protected territory. That's our unique mechanism. But within that, our unique mechanism is that we license the people. So it's just kind of layered on top of it. you know, when we go, sometimes the starting point isn't to test the magnetic message of the ad to attract people to that brand. It's starting with what do we actually call the brand?

What is the message that informs this brand that we're going to package up and then run advertising to? And so we do it at every level. so step number one, get the magnetic message. Step number two, combine the message with, with, with a captivating creative. So we're often using AI to develop the creative where we're creating static images. Initially in the future, we, we develop, you know, mixed media with video as well, but we start with static cause it's easier to test.

And so now we're going to layer the magnetic message over a relevant and captivating creative and finding what is the combination of the two. That's phase two. Phase three is then we, and we're doing this all with click testing. What we're trying to see is which is so magnetic that we're getting the clicks. And so we're tracking through CTR all and CTR click. And as you add more, the link click CTR is what you're focused on at beginning, but it's easy.

Jim Fisher:19:00
If you know anything about advertising a good CTR for a cold traffic campaign, baseline can be profitable, it's usually around one to 2%. For us, most of the time by the end of this sequential process where we're testing and building and testing and building and kind of engineering this complete ad unit, which we eventually call the golden ad where we've

Jordan Lally:19:11
Yes.

Jim Fisher:19:26
layered all the components. What's the message? The message forms creative and then what's the copy with the headline and we build it all sequentially. By the time we get to the golden ed, we're usually somewhere between eight and 10 % click through rate. So you're talking about. Yeah.

Jordan Lally:19:41
There's no way. That's very fucking impressive.

Jim Fisher:19:45
Yeah. so which, which, you know, just be, and the reason why that's so important for us is because of the reason why our, you know, going back to our campaign strategy is so valuable is because we, we do a lot of education. Most of our competitors, they do what I call rabbit hole advertising, which is how quickly can you get the rabbit to fall down the hole? Meaning how slippery can you make your, your CTA and your call to action so that the, the person's albums doesn't even feel like they're opting in.

And all of a sudden, by the end of it, the rabbit fell down the hole and you have an Amy mill and phone number you can sell out as a lead. And, you know, the advisors often in that participating in that broken customer journey is feeling, how am I supposed to make this work? Because the prospect doesn't even know how they got here. You know, rabbit fell down the hole. And so the, the, the difference with us, I need that high click through rate. Cause I got to pummel way more throughput through the top because I'm going to put them through an advertorial style process. I'm going to talk about the problem. I'm going to agitate the problem. I'm going to introduce the solution. I'm going to sell the concept. I'm going to overcome the top three objections all before and set the intent that you're going to speak to a human being at the end of this all before they begin the opt-in process through like a nine question survey. so because I'm actually, and why do I do all of that? For one reason is because I'm not trying to sell a lead. I'm trying to generate an outcome. through those three phases of validation. And if it was just to generate a name, email, and phone number, I would play the rabbit hole game. And that's coming from somebody who thought that's what you did. And that was where I started. But then again, I was like, no, I need them to get the result. And so I need the prospect to actually have intent to pursue the solution with the advisor. And so, and before I can even sell it as a service, I need to actually issue a business. So I need to design this funnel to produce the result, not generate pipeline activity of. leads and appointments. And so it's that click testing that can get, you know, somewhere between six and 12 % CTRs, which gets way more people in my landing page. And so then I could do the hard filtering of the advertorial to get a much higher intent process or prospect. And so that kind of speaks to our testing process. And we do everything. We test all the ad, then the ad informs click congruence into the landing page and the headline. Everything started with the ad testing. And so we build out, you know,

Jim Fisher:22:07
sequentially to get golden ads to potentially test all of our landing funnel or sorry landing page and the funnel elements to get to the golden funnel, which you know within our KPI and all along the way we're actually going to test the sales approach to it and that's the biggest thing.

Jordan Lally:22:22
That was my next question. That was my next question. Okay, cool. We dialed in the testing for the creative. I love this shit, by the way. How do you test the sales process?

Jim Fisher:22:26
Yeah.

Well, I mean, the biggest because we have the people in house and the reason why it's like in hindsight, you hear everything. Maybe you're inspired by the level of business that we built and you're like, man, that's what I should do. That's what everyone should do is to get this level of focus and purpose in generating the outcome, not the leading indicator, but the actual result people want, which in our case, in any case, is to actually make the cash register.

Not the credit card to swipe for themselves. We say, know grow your commission statement now your credit card balance And so the thing about all that why do people not do it because it's freaking hard There's a lot of things like it's it's a big thing to do to not just say like, you know, because what most people do is They they just advocate responsibility. It's like well, you're not good enough at sales. Okay. Well, listen, you can be right You can have your excuses and be right and not win because if you can't help the client solve the problem, you're not going to get where you want to go. And so you have to do the harder thing, which is a slog to get in the trenches and figure it out. so for us, from a sales testing standpoint, it's like everything is recorded. Internally, for our team that's going to do the testing, it's like we're going to listen to every single call.

We're going to watch leads move through the pipeline. We're going to debrief. We're going to, you know, get on and optimize the process when the sale is complicated enough. And my advisor can't be the innovator to say, what has to change in the opening script of this campaign different from the one you are successful with? And then when that's the case, I literally get on the, you know, I have 62 employees and I only say that to say, I get on the phone and talk to lead myself because I am the innovator of that.

Jim Fisher:24:25
80 % of the time my guys can configure it out. But sometimes the campaign is new enough, different enough from the other strategies they're used to. And that's the difference. The devil's in the details, people say, right? It's that nuance is that you're just hoping your client figures it out. And a lot of people, if they're good at the marketing and they get enough throughput of people, they can collect some case studies and some testimonials because...

20 % of the people you serve are gonna succeed regardless of your intervention, right? And so that means if you just get enough throughput, you're gonna see success. The question, then the other, but there's two other segments that you have to care about. 20%, the other end of the bell curve, they're gonna fail regardless of what you do. The measurement of your value proposition is what can you do with the 60 % in the middle? And so...

A lot of people see the 20 % of success and then blame everyone else for their failure rather than taking responsibility. So you have to get in the trenches to test it yourself.

Jordan Lally:25:42
And that's where I truly do believe that agency owners are much more than just done for you marketing services. are, we provide a done for you solution, but we are consultants. We have to consult you on how to actually run a business from generating the lead to in your case, transferring assets under management into your client's account or into your client's situation. I'm sure I've butchered that, but you get the overall idea there.

Jim Fisher:26:06
Thank you.

Jordan Lally:26:12
Basically, want to give people what they need. can probably talk about this. Give people what they need. What do your clients want? They want hot, they want hot food, right? But if you do not turn these hot weeds into clients, you've paid clients, what the hell's up with the weed, right? How frustrating when you were delivering exceptional weeds, exceptional results, you've proven the model first, and then people come back to you, they just can't close. Like how many... you should that take like okay, have to do that. Yes, you provide these but I have to start consulting on all the sale. What is your part?

Jim Fisher:26:52
Yeah. So, I mean, the thing is, is, in the beginning, I, you know, it was always very clear to me by the time we started to focus down into, you know, a particular niche, it was very clear to me that I could not just generate the lead because I knew as, I come from sales. I'm not a marketer. I'm a great marketer now because, you know, marketing is just a sales message written down.

Jordan Lally:27:21
Went too many? yes.

Jim Fisher:27:22
Yeah, yeah. mean, but yes, it's no different than what you're saying. But so I say that because so I always knew that they needed something. And in the beginning, we trained and we trained based on principles. But what I learned and in the beginning, man, you're doing so many things, wearing so many hats, like in the beginning, like I was the sales guy, you know, for everything. And And so, and I was also the coach to our clients. And a lot of times it's like you give so much and it does help, but you don't have the bandwidth to go actually deeper and solve the remaining problems. And so what I'm getting at is we always had a component of like the coaching consulting, but it was heavily like intuition and principle-based meaning I, I had clients come to coaching calls and recount, you know, their sticking points to the best of their ability. and then, and then I would train, coach them through how to do it. And some people would gain success, but many wouldn't, that wouldn't, that wasn't enough.

And it wasn't until I got enough critical mass where I could get in the trenches and I didn't have enough overwhelm and stress that I could finally say, you know what, if they could figure out what their, limitations or constraints were and their skills and approach that are limiting their success, they wouldn't need me and they wouldn't be struggling. And so it was, it was the realization of that, that I accepted the responsibility to say.

I can't let you diagnose.

Jim Fisher:29:20
I have to diagnose the problem. And so we really got more into reviewing the measurement, listening to the calls. then, and so it was me studying failure and being successful myself. Because I could not study success among my clients because most of them have, the successful ones, the ones that were in that 20 % love to give me credit. If you ask them, why are you successful? And I was really trying to hone in what gets you to get the result you want. because it isn't just the leads, because same market, same leads, same marketing, everything, but one person is wildly successful and the other person is growing their credit card balance. And so, and if you just, so I started by interviewing my successful clients and you get answers that are representative of unconscious competence and they sound a lot like, I just do it. or they externalize these leads are the best or they oversimplify, I just follow your process. The principles I teach, they give me, but the thing is, like all those things are true for the person that's failing. So, and so I had to get in there and diagnose it myself. And, you know, the biggest shift that we help people make, yes, there's more technical things that we've implemented from that, but it's an identity shift, you know, in. that I realized was the big thing. know, Frank and Covey, they talks about B do you have? Like who are you being? It informs what you do, the offer you make so that you can have the result that you want. And the thing is, is most people are being product peddlers. They're being insurance agents. They're being transactional. The difference is how the person shows up. The person that is successful doesn't see themselves as an insurance agent. Sure, they have the license, they operate within the legal framework of it, but they don't show up and saying, you know, Sounds like you needed an annuity, you know, it's like if you walked into a doctor's office and you said doc You know it hurts and before you can say anything else the doctor just says let me tell you about this new blood pressure medication we have and you'd be like What are we talking about? Right, but that's how most people sell to leads because they assume they believe this myth We call it the cardinal sin that just because someone opted online whether the ad said the product or not

Jim Fisher:31:37
You assume that they're, they're, they're ready to buy and yeah, that they're sold. think lead equals sold. And now you forget you're a salesperson. You just think you're an order taker. You think you've earned that right because you paid for marketing. And so, you know, the biggest thing that we do to separate us over the years is, know, we, we only let our clients talk about how good our marketing is, you know, earlier in this conversation, I kind of talked about how we engineer our marketing campaign strategies. And yes, that leads to.

Jordan Lally:31:41
your soul.

Jim Fisher:32:07
you know, a lot of our clients saying, I've never had leads like this, but we never say we got the best leads because that allows the marketplace to think that leads are enough. The best leads are enough. And that's the lie that this industry tells in financial services, a lot of lead vendors that will sell you and most of them market from the standpoint of a claim that is if you just had our leads, you'd be successful. You know, the unicorn leads show up and close, you know, it's like Yeah, good luck, man. How many times you've been burned by that bullshit? Because leads don't convert themselves. Skilled professionals do. What's the gap in your skill that's preventing your success, regardless of your lead source? We close that. And then, yeah, while we make you better, we also are pretty good at marketing, but we're never going to be the person to introduce that idea in your mind, because it will allow most people to abdicate responsibility from the skill required.

Jordan Lally:33:00
You, I said this in the green room earlier, you are the exact reason, your articulation skills of a skilled professional is the exact reason why we are only allowing top dogs in industries to speak on this fucking podcast. Thank you for all the gems. Getting back to nuggets here. Okay, so.

The bell curve, there are gonna be 20 % of people that no matter what you do, they will find a fucking way to succeed. We love those guys, but the 60%, right? How do we actually get these guys to perform better? We can have coaching calls, we can have sales processes, we can have SOPs in place, but do you feel like it has anything to do with the account management side of getting them bought in? and like reinforcing their belief into this process here. Like you paid us money to do a job, but we're gonna help you succeed with this job. So like you have to show up to the coaching calls. You have to stick to the SOPs. Like, do you kind of see what I'm trying to say there?

Jim Fisher:34:01
Yeah, no, absolutely. The account management is everything. it's I mean, some of the biggest shifts that we've made is really getting into that person because, you know, the gap that we saw was that our salespeople in order to close really got into why do you want to do this? Like, you know, if there's no reason.

No problem to solve, no reason to grow or change, and there's nothing to present. We've got nothing to sell. And so in that type of approach to selling, they often get really clear on their why and what their goals are and why they need to achieve their goals. And the gap was that wasn't picked up and anchored to in the account management and then reflected on. Also, you know, the reason why most people fail is the programming hasn't changed, right? If you could do it on your own and you had the mindset that you needed and the skills that you needed to be successful, you would be successful. And so you need to, the transition is that the, everything that the salesperson understood to get the deal done needs to be carried over for the same accountability in the clothes that the salesperson created. That deep, rich accountability needs to exist in the account management. So I need to understand why you're here. Why do you need to change? What are your goals? Why do those goals matter to you? And then also I needed to, know, one of the one last thing that I would put on that is like, what does a closer do? Is they financially qualify and understand the financial picture for the sustainability of someone to invest in a program, especially with a long term relationship, we're selling six to 12 month agreements that You know, if they don't make money in the first 16 to 90 days, they're not going to quit. Like this isn't their Hail Mary. They're a little bit prepared to invest in leveling up, before the cashflow cycle starts to turn over. And so I share all that because the key thing that are beyond getting deep onto the accountability and the why, so they can anchor to that when it gets hard, because they're going to have to coach them to change. Because who you are being is why you are failing. You need to change and grow.

Jim Fisher:36:25
But the other thing that they needed to do was understand what are the economics and all this stuff. Because guess what the salesperson is gonna do who's struggling? They're gonna sell their way out of the struggle if you don't have the accountability components to hold them to what is necessary to change. And just very explicitly what I'm getting at is people will just, you

Jordan Lally:36:37
Mm.

Jim Fisher:36:48
The salesperson knows that this person has a six figure job and they're trying to transition into this career and make this the full time thing. Cause that job is a ceiling and this is the floor. And this is the vehicle that gets them to the dreams that they had or what they want. But the account manager doesn't know that they have a six figure job. And so when it gets hard two months in, what does the prospect say? Especially someone who's in sales, they sell you on why they can't continue because the business isn't paying for itself and therefore paying. the subscription retainer payments to my company. And so very simply, if you know that, you know, they now they can't lie to you out of convenience. I mean, it's a very simple thing, but I tell you, it's dramatic. And, and, you know, there's two ways you can hear what I just said. Way number one is you can be like, wow. You just, really want that revenue. You really want to, you know, make sure that the contract you sold is realized because that's what you're building your business on.

Yeah, that's one way to look at it. Or you can believe what we believe is that it is our moral obligation to help you see this through. And if there's going to be change, you know, you must change. And that's not easy. And so we're going to use all of the, you know, elements of accountability to see you through that change. And you'll be thankful for it on the other side, your goals, your dreams become real.

And that's why it's so important for you to have that conviction in the scale, but through the account management is you one have to create results and two, have to remind yourself every day across your entire team, every single opportunity you can of what you do for people. So when it's hard, you need to push people outside their comfort zone, because that's where growth occurs and they need to grow to get to where they want to go. Then you're reinforced because you know, when I push people,

Jordan Lally:38:19
Yes.

Jim Fisher:38:42
I changed their life. When I push people to become something new, they get a different result and they go from, we have plenty of stories of considering bankruptcy to making $60,000 a month. And so you have to reinforce that and you can never share wins enough because you never know when the silly person that wants to make excuses and spew hot garbage at you is going to come across and you need to be strengthened. strengthened by the wins constantly so that you hear that and be like, it's them, not me, but we'll still keep fighting. I say this in the sales process and it carries through the account management is you got to stand up to and for your client. I think that's what true sales professionals do. And I think the more we've realized as a company that we're all in sales, because sales is just influence. And if we believe in our mission and what we help people do, we're all in the influence game. So we're always selling.

I'm gonna sell you on why your old baggage and BS that you tell yourself that's kept you where you are, far from where you wanna be. I'm gonna sell you through that so your identity shifts and you step into the person who can earn what you want.

Jordan Lally:39:56
Jim, I fucking love you, dude. Thank you so much for all of this. One thing, you definitely sound metaphysical. I'm the same way. Love the words and like the language, the vocabulary that you're using, because I definitely believe the exact same thing. Like you need to be. Don't just think, but be. When you be, you act. When you act, you get results. Second thing, the first time, this is the no bullshit story. The first time I helped the client hit six figures in a month, I cried. I cried because.

Jim Fisher:40:15
Yeah.

Jordan Lally:40:24
I changed that person's life. I changed that person's business. And when you actually deliver results for your clients, you have that conviction. When you have that conviction of like, no, this shit works. I know what I'm doing. You're not going to let people just slip off the hook. Let them slide and make excuses. Like you said, I have a moral obligation to help you see this thing through. Cause I know it's going to work for you. You just have to believe it yourself. Because look at all the freaking case studies, the piles and piles of screenshots, videos, et cetera. of us actually doing the thing that we said that we're going to do, you know? And I think it's hard to push people, stand up to them and stand up for them when you don't have that conviction. So getting back to re-instill beliefs, the wins every single day, you can't talk about your wins enough, right? I don't know how you structure your team meetings, but the very first thing we do internally is we talk about at least three client wins, at least.

Who has a win? Who has a win? I want to hear. Like you have to instill that conviction into your staff. So thank you.

Jim Fisher:41:26
Yes. Yeah, exactly. Every day. Because you don't know when, you know, someone's past and baggage or current circumstance is going to cause you to question what you're doing. you know, the other thing that I would add to this conversation is that when you are trying to be that transformational, it's a massive responsibility that you're taking on, which is to say, And I think you do this to all, but for most people, that's not their problem. Their problem is that they are, they're doing enough and convincing themselves it's enough. And I, had this, I went through that phase in my journey and we already do enough for you. How could I possibly do more? But like, you know, you could be right or you could be rich, right? And you be rich. got to produce the results in a way that no one else can. the biggest thing I think people avoid going to this level of value creation is because.

Jordan Lally:42:15
Yes!

Jim Fisher:42:26
It's hard, it takes massive responsibility. And when you aren't enough, you aren't contributing enough value to the result to create it more consistently, to hit that 60 % in the bell curve that you actually have a control over the outcome for, when it doesn't go well, it's tough to feel responsible and be responsible that you haven't done enough yet. You haven't figured out enough yet.

You know, and you know, the biggest thing that I think burdens this high ticket space is, that, is that people don't realize that you can't just, you know, be high ticket by just selling at a big price, right? You, you, the reason why you, you know, high ticket exists and why we can charge a premium price is because we deliver a result. We deliver an outcome.

We don't just, you know, and so you can't just transmit information. That's the course business that is pretty well dead at the moment, but you have to transform people and that's harder to do. Information alone does not transform. It's, know, I believe knowledge is not power. It's potential power. must be applied. And you have to help people overcome themselves in most cases to apply the new thing.

Jordan Lally:43:34
Yes.

Jim Fisher:43:51
to get the new result and to iterate through that. And so, you know, that responsibility of being on the hook ultimately for reaping the benefits and, you know, having the tears of joy like you did for the $100,000 month client the first time you help somebody do that, you know, to earn those rewards and accolades and the fruits that come from it. The pathway to that is the being responsibility for not being enough. and falling short of the consistent result in pursuit of becoming that valuable. Because anybody you look up to in this industry or any other industry, and you look at what they have, most people don't consider what it took to become the value proposition they are to earn what they have. And so you just have to take responsibility for the journey, the failing forward saying, no, not enough yet.

But what most people do is like stiff arm, which I went through the phase early in my business. Like, you know, we do enough. This is great. You know, it's enough. Look, these guys are succeeding. Why not you? It's because it's your fault. And then I decided, you know what, I'll take responsibility for you too. And now because you take responsibility enough, even when the people fail, you know, we get so good and we're so engaged and we do everything to not let people fall through the cracks. And we have so many commitments to that. So that when people fail, quit. cancel because it still happens. Nothing's perfect. I would say 19 out of 20, 95 % of the time, they don't blame us because they know we did everything we could. They just say, you know what? This isn't working out or, or I mean, we even have people we've collected quite a bit of them. It's like, I don't think I'm meant to be in this industry because if I can't succeed with you, then I don't think I can succeed in this. And so that's the level that you get to, but I mean, I've been in this niche since 2019, seven years, you know, overnight success. I've had my marketing company, since 2011, you know, so that's what 15 years, I've been at this. and so now listen, I'm part of big masterminds, you know, I have

Jim Fisher:46:13
the friends, I'm friends with so many of biggest guys in this industry, you know, doing four or $5 million a month. And I only say that to, to, to say, don't get lost in the idea that, you know, rapids, rapid growth is your measure of value because, know, I've been a mastermind for four and five years and I see the guy that blows up and then. blows up and explodes because all they did was chase quick hits, cash collected, and didn't build sustainable value. it's not about how fast you can get there, it's how long you can stay and keep growing.

Jordan Lally:47:06
I you you might testify to this but I this quote from this guy named Wes Watson and he said, whenever you you you match yourself out, you will legitimately change lives you haven't even met yet.

When you and you can testify to that I can testify to that by us becoming the absolute best version of ourselves People change lives. We haven't even met yet I think that statement like kind of gets me teary-eyed because we're just people like we're just fucking floating on this rock type stuff Yeah, we have so much power that we can't even most humans can't even fathom. They lack this self-belief that that that you you and I probably have you know, so just I want to fucking acknowledge that with any my man second thing is on the mastermind topic Do you know a guy named Jeremy Hayes? Are you in his mastermind, bro? No Yeah, yeah

Jim Fisher:47:58
No, no, I'm not. have a lot of friends who are. follow a lot of his content. One of the he talks about in his content, he's like, ah, man, want to help you so you're playing with house money. So I got house money because of Jeremy. I mean, one of the things I love that he talks about that we've implemented quite a bit is propaganda, is like belief altering messaging in a marketing framework. A good marketer, it's a bit...

Jordan Lally:48:12
Yeah! Yes!

Jim Fisher:48:34
provocative to use the word propaganda. I'm obviously then again, know, you look Russell Brunson lately, somewhat of a goat in my mind from a marketing digital direct response world. And I think most of his content is like the propaganda playbook. So but anyway, we we heavily use propaganda in our in our marketing, you know, hammer them. You know, one of the things that Jeremy helped me realize is that from his content on YouTube, he's like, buyers have an insatiable appetite for information. you can't send them too much. And even when they complain, they got too much information that they still buy. And so that's true. And so we do a ton of that. For sure.

Jordan Lally:49:15
I was going to ask, I'm glad that you know the backend selling system strategy that he probably articulates. Do you replicate that on behalf of your clients to compress trust like it?

Jim Fisher:49:26
We're starting to, mean, the, the, uh, we're starting to see that there's a problem and you see this in some people's offers in our marketplace, but this is anything. It's like, what they try to do is say, put an offer together where the person has to become, you know, the content creator. Uh, and the problem is, that, um, most people not have no prior experience in that.

So I say you have to develop the video muscle. And so there's going to be a lot of time and maybe money spent on developing the muscle. And maybe you never get good enough to be effective. And so I think that's the problem with the content piece as a strategy. I learned that early in my journey. I mean, we did that for people and I was like, man, you can't get people to record and they do, it's not good. This is going to be effective. And so the reason why we, you know, with our brand strategy, where we develop these, these brands and license them is that we remove that burden. from people, like you can just affiliate with our brand. But to your original question, what we're starting to do and where it makes economic sense to us now is that when people come in as clients are on these brands, the backend ascension in our relationship is that they affiliate to our insurance broker, to our investment advisor. And so that gives us like kind of another backend revenue stream, which also incentivizes us to make them even more effective. And it can... then it also makes sense that I would use my time, effort and likeness to develop that. Because like I said, know, the reason I told that story is that most people, advisors or otherwise don't have the video muscle developed. there's, we typically don't have enough time that they'd be willing to commit before it could ROI for them to get good at it. And so where we are now is I'm starting to take some of our brands where with our highest level relationships and I'm building out all that content. Like for example, I just, built a webinar for the second brand that I talked about in that journey that we ever created that's been around for a long time and works really well. I built a webinar for it. We're probably going to do, I would say, 12 to 15x ROAS on it. And what I use as the webinar development process is my content development crucible by the end of it. I got all these visuals and frameworks, you know,

Jim Fisher:51:49
freaking robust webinar slides that then could be splintered I could turn them into propaganda content and 12 different YouTube videos and all those YouTube videos could be turned to visually graphical blog articles. They could all go on the brand website. They could all turn into email follow-up sequences with more robust education to compress the sales cycle, do the backend selling. So yeah, we are actually doing that, but I'm only doing it with people who have that ultimate level of relationship and affiliation where...

I don't even make them pay for it. We just have a different rev share relationship and they just get to be the salespeople on the funnel with me. But over time, I'll take all that content, I'll pull it forward, but it will only be to the people who have the affiliation with us. Because I'm not going to build, the interesting thing about this industry is we've earned our way to this point where it's like, I'm not gonna be the... the driver of production and those assets moving for the benefit of some other distribution company, which is kind of what that brokerage is, some other brokerage. And so we just keep making our machine, the brand and the mechanisms and all the marketing assets around it. So good that it's an easy ass to say, well, you know, you keep doing it your way, or you can move to us with that brokerage affiliation and get access to this level of marketing, which There isn't, you know, the opportunity we have, because I've been in the trenches, is that there just isn't any really, there's no scaled system out there that is this modern and integrated in a digital direct response. Like, it's literally on the front lines learning from the likes of Jeremy and, you know, Cole Gordon is somebody I've, you know, been friends with and I'm in his mastermind.

You know, I mean, if you've ever, if you've been around for a while, like I was an early, early, early climate and there were like four people including Taylor and Chris of like, Taylor Welch. and so, you know, so I, I've seen a lot of journey, pulling that, know, Tony Robbins talks, man, you can create, outside success when you can model from one industry and take it to another. And my ability to take this, you know, digital direct response, high ticket, you know, virtual sales and all that stuff.

Jordan Lally:53:45
Thank

Jim Fisher:54:14
and pull it into this legacy, very large market of the financial advisory is a huge opportunity, but it's a harder problem to solve. I've grown slower than guys around me in the mastermind because I have to deal with 45 plus insurance departments and the security and exchange commission from Facebook compliance is weak sauce compared to that level of compliance. so, but. it really starts to compound and when it compounds it without you, you know, necessarily, you know, my third kid will be here by mid-June and it really cool to have this great opportunity, this great business that is compounding, but also take my kids to school, be there as a chaperone for my son's like fun day and so.

That's also been a goal of mine is to build a business that didn't own me. and doesn't mean I haven't had even, you know, man, before I was developing the webinar that I just launched is, yeah, there's, there were some Saturdays here and there, but I choose when I, I kind of go all in and, and, kind of create those, those points of leverage to, to break through. but, you know, I don't have to show up every day anymore for the business to grow, which is an exciting place to be.

Jordan Lally:55:42
Absolutely. That's honestly, the goals are set on one day. We're not going to get into that now, but I definitely believe in building a business that is so it just you crazy.

Jim Fisher:55:53
Well, if you build, mean, when I was at the last event with Cole's group, you know, I spoke and that was my topic is it said the business that people want to acquire happens to be the one that you might want to keep, which means it is an asset. It doesn't rely on you or your likeness. And so you get to stay in your zone of genius, know, parts that energize you. so, you know, we get people that, you know, I've had a billionaires fly their private jets to come to my office here in Nashville too. Because, because we are this vertically integrated thing where the new kids on the block and this old industry. so people can see that and you know, we, we get offered to be acquired. But we're having fun and it's like, okay, I sell to you and then what do I do? you know, I'm, I'm, I'm enjoying it. Doesn't mean it's easy. It's all sunshine and rainbows, you know.

You know, still have to replace people and fire people and talk to silly people that, you know, but there's less of it when you have a team. You know, when you have multiple people with, you know, six figure salaries, you get to say, you take care

Jordan Lally:57:10
No, right, You said the buko box. That's what I might say.

Jim Fisher:57:13
And that's why you make the big bucks. Yeah. And they don't care because they know they make the big bucks. Like, yeah, I got it. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. I've seen that from Hermosy lately. I haven't gotten to this. He's like, man, the first time you get to like, you know, you're somebody $150,000 salary and then, and then, you know, you keep leveling up. Well, I mean, I'm looking forward to the day that, and I think some of the area of my team where you have somebody that you pay a million dollars a year to, because it's a different level. And I think when you make that,

Jordan Lally:57:20
Hahaha

Jim Fisher:57:42
you make that your focus. It becomes really fun to to build a business where your vision is big enough that it could be the vehicle that gets other people their dreams. And I think that's how you know you're in pursuit of something great is when you can attract great people who see this as the way to get what they want. And and then, you know, you know, I don't know about about you but then I have no like guilt in you know buying the watch or or the sports car or building the the big house is because your team's like you deserve it thank you for what you've created for me

Jordan Lally:58:29
Doesn't that get you a bit emotional? Maybe I'm just an emotional guy, I don't know, but like...

Jim Fisher:58:33
Absolutely. I literally like it's emotional, but it's also really rewarding when you when you built a team of people. And I mean, you have to be the person worth following. And that's something that comes from, you know, working on yourself. And you were saying that before, right? Who are you being right? You have to become worth following.

Leadership is defined by having a following and you it's not a position. And so, but when you do it right, it's really rewarding. I love that, you know, I people on my team that's like, Jim, you deserve the 911 Turbo. You deserve the new house. You deserve this. And that's how you know, you've built like a great culture and you've put in the work because you have the respect where, you know, You're almost teaching them how to level up and they want you to go before them in all things, not just in the vision of the business, but in the fruits of success as well.

Jordan Lally:59:38
I love it Jim. I really, really do wish we had more time. You and I can talk for a few hours I feel like. But where can I find you if they wanted to explore social media, et cetera?

Jim Fisher:59:46
Yeah, I mean, my Instagram is the only thing that I go on to. It's Jfisherman, just how it sounds. Juicebox.com is our company. Our juice box has no I. That's probably enough. can search my name. I do some YouTube, but it's only for my niche. It might not be valuable to you, but this is Jim Fisher on YouTube.

Jordan Lally (01:00:11.413) Jim, thank you so much for joining the show, We'll need to have you back on like six to 12 months to re-discuss here. Awesome, audience, we'll talk to y'all soon.

Jim Fisher (01:00:18.68) Sounds good.