Meta Ads on $50 a Day: Jennifer Tamborski on Predictable Clients

0:00 · Who is Jennifer Tamborski & what does the VME Agency do?

Jordan:0:00
Welcome back to the [High Ticket AI Systems] Podcast. Everyone, please welcome the winner now. This is Jennifer Tamborski. Jennifer, how you doing today?

Jennifer Tamborski:0:08
I'm doing fabulous today. How are you, Jordan?

Jordan:0:11
Fantastic, Thank you so much. It's truly our pleasure to have you on. Now for those of us that aren't familiar with the name yet or even the brand, can you kind of explain to us like what you guys do, what you guys sell and who it's for?

Jennifer Tamborski:0:24
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Jennifer Tamborski. I am the owner of Virtual Marketing Expert and VME Agency. We are a dual track business. So VME Agency is a full service marketing agency that does done for you paid traffic. Virtual Marketing Experts is more of a coaching consulting and hybrid company where we do training. and development as well as a hybrid model that takes our done for you and our training and merges them together so that the end of 10 weeks, our clients walk away with not only ads running and working from a late agency, but also the control to keep them going themselves so they're no longer dependent on an agency.

1:17 · Should business owners learn their own marketing or just outsource it?

Jordan:1:17
I think that's really important. think a lot of businesses, especially local service businesses to be exact, they just love to outsource things. They love to outsource their marketing, outsource their sales if they could, but they're really good at being a roofer or being an HVAC technician or being a plumber as an example. However, in business, I don't think it's the wisest thing to do to outsource. such a strong pillar or foundational component within your organization, like marketing. So I'm really glad that you offer both the done for you aspect and obviously the consulting side. Do you have a question on that that topic though? Do you find that, you know, with your niche and your ISTP, do you find that most business owners are open to learning how to do it themselves?

Or they're like, no way Jennifer, you just do it for me. I want to do this over here. Just, just get me leads and I'll have fun.

Jennifer Tamborski:2:16
I think it's 50-50, honestly. The people who come into the agency side of things generally are like that. They abdicate their marketing. They just want someone to do it for them. That being said, I'm finding more and more often that there are business owners out there that don't understand their marketing at all. They have abdicated it to an agency. And then when that agency stops working in whatever way, because I'm not going to drag on agencies. their jobs well. But there are reasons sometimes that ads stop working or your funnel stops working or whatever happens and that business owner decides to leave that agency. What's actually happened is, is they have no idea what worked, why it worked, why it stopped working or anything else because they've abdicated everything. So if we can help those business owners to understand the what, why and how of what they're doing, they're better able to keep that momentum going because in all honesty, marketers, agencies, all of us, we have our own thoughts, but it's not our business. It's yours. And so if you don't know the inside out of your business, how are you expecting someone else to? So I really do think that there's delegation, which Absolutely delegate to a done for you agency if you're at that level and you just don't have those wherewithal to run ads or that kind of thing but at least understand why you're doing it what you're doing and what they're doing and the same goes for you know those businesses who need ads and can't afford agencies yet because in reality a done for you agency runs at least three to five thousand dollars a month That's just reality. That's before ad spend or anything else. Very few people have that financial cash flow to do that long term because sometimes it can take a couple of months before you're like getting your ROI, not necessarily from the ads, but from the agency fees as well. And that tends to eat into people's capital. So if they can start out with campaigns that are working, take them over.

4:38 · When is the right time to hire a done-for-you agency?

Jennifer Tamborski:4:38
get that cash flow coming in and then scale it to a point where they're like, okay, I have plenty of cash flow coming in. can have, you know, I have $10,000, five to spend on ads and five to give an agency without it harming the rest of my business. That's really when people are ready to hire agencies long-term.

Jordan:4:57
Right. If you're not making at least, I don't know, 30K a month consistently, I think it's very difficult to start spending the capital necessary to see an actual ROI. Because you could spend $50 a day, but like, what is that going to do? You know what I mean?

5:14 · The handyman spending $50/day and making $6K a month

Jennifer Tamborski:5:14
In all reality, $50 a day can do a lot for you depending on what you're selling. I mean, I have a client right now who spends $50 a day, and he's bringing in about $6,000 a month. So, $50

Jordan:5:26
What do they sell?

Jennifer Tamborski:5:29
He's a handyman.

Jordan:5:32
What? Handyman? Handyman? God, okay, okay, Okay, okay.

Jennifer Tamborski:5:33
He's a handyman. Yeah, he's a handyman. So, so yeah, $50 a day he gets, he doesn't get a ton of leads, but he doesn't need a ton of leads. Like if he can get five or 10 leads a month and close half of them, that fills his pipeline. So it all just depends, the actual spend depends on what you're selling and how you're selling it. That being said, at least $50 a day will give you information and data is your message working.

Is your offer good? it like all of the stuff that you get to test with ads? Rapidly. You can spend $50 and understand a lot about what your audience is connecting with.

Jordan:6:15
Great. No, great. Great talking point for sure. I do want to backtrack a little bit. I think someone told me this. said, you know, what's worse than like winning, like having a successful marketing campaign is having a successful marketing campaign and not having a clue as to why it was successful, at least from your lessons or like the losses, which are lessened. It's like, well I know what not worked. Right.

Jennifer Tamborski:6:40
Yeah.

Jordan:6:41
Like these three campaigns suck, this messaging sucked. And I understand why it didn't work. But when I have a successful campaign and you're, you know, a little not ignorant, but you just don't have the business acumen to understand why it worked. It's like, damn, this is working, but like, have no idea why it's working. You know what I mean? So you have to understand that the principles and like the philosophies with online ads and it sounds like you only dialed, not only dialed in, but you work on the meta side of advertising, correct?

Jennifer Tamborski:6:56
Yeah.

Jennifer Tamborski:7:05
I do. So our agency actually runs meta ads, YouTube ads and LinkedIn ads. The consulting side generally focuses on meta ads because I've already built the course for meta ads and all of that kind of stuff. and also there are like 3 billion people on meta. If someone tells me that their clients are not on meta, they're lying because there is not one person, unless they just don't use social media at all. Like They are on meta, either Instagram, Facebook, WhatsApp, threads. Like there are four different platforms through meta right now that you can run ads to. They are on meta. It's just a matter of finding the right audience, the right messaging and the right funnel that's going to bring them in.

Jordan:7:51
No, for sure. When you are working with clients on the done for you side, do you utilize like video content? Do you build their funnels? I guess what does all that include? Yeah, you do.

8:00 · How Jennifer tests ad creative static images first, always

Jennifer Tamborski:8:00
Yeah. All of the above. mean, it all we've had clients that some of them, they're static images that are just an image of them and some copy printed on it or just a plain background and copy on it works better than anything else. But there are other clients that need face to camera or need B roll. Their audience just reacts better to those things. So it is about testing, right? Once you've hit I tend to, my general strategy with testing is test the messaging on static images first, see what's hitting, what are people clicking on, and then take those and convert them into different formats to see which one your audience is going to react to best. Is it a carousel? Is it a static image? Is it a B-roll? Is it face to camera? And then you just keep going with that.

Jordan:8:52
No, for sure. And I think it also depends on the complexity of your offer, right? Like if it's an offer that everyone knows, like, get a new route for X, Y, Z dollars, right? As long as your offer is appealing, you can just slap it on a static ad and people know exactly what you're talking about. If you're selling like, I don't know, some new technology, like a SaaS product or just something that's new.

I don't know if static ads are the best route to go because again, you have to articulate what the hell the offer is, explain the USP, why it's different, et cetera. So therefore like face a UGC or a talking head for that specific ad, I think.

Let's see for the for the consulting side. Do you find so with the consulting side, you do run their ads briefly for 123 and then you kind of turn the key over to them.

9:40 · The 10-week Predictable Clients Program explained

Jennifer Tamborski:9:40
We So the way that that program works, the Predictable Clients Program works, is that it's a 10-week program. Week one and two are onboarding like we would in our general agency, right? We do your strategy, we do your copy, your creative, all of the things. Set up your ads. By week three, your ads are live. So week three to seven, so four weeks, we're running ads for you. We're doing all of that things. We're sending you information on what worked, what didn't work, why we changed things. the client is also taking a course that's already been built so that they understand how to run them themselves and can ask us questions along the way. So they start to learn how we think about what we're doing and why we're doing it. Then week seven, it gets turned over to them. So for four weeks, they're running their ads themselves with us in the background of in case of emergencies, right? Or just questions like, This ad seems to be not working as well as it was. Why kind of things. And so we're there kind of coaching them along until the end of week 10.

Jordan:10:52
Okay, solid. How do you, who would you say is your best ICP? Best meaning if they work with you, they get the best results every single time.

11:02 · Who gets the best results working with Jennifer

Jennifer Tamborski:11:02
So historically, I have primarily worked with coaches, consultants, course creators. I've been in the business for 20-ish years, and that's been historically who I've worked with. However, in the last year or two, I've had a lot more local businesses coming in the door, like the handyman I was telling you earlier, who need this type of service because they don't have the cash flow to hire an agency. But they might. have somebody in their office that answers their phone that could actually just do the ads if they knew how. So it is a combination. Now I will say it's service-based business owners. I don't do e-commerce. I don't sell widgets. I don't sell t-shirts. sell a lot of times. It's not that there's not a transformation or a product at the end. Like a handyman obviously comes in and paints your room. But it's usually about a transformation or service rather than actually something they can hold.

Jordan:12:00
For sure, Ecom ads, it's entirely different ballgame. Completely different than the marketing that you and I utilize. I had a question and I freaking forgot it. Give me one sec, it's always happens to me. Funnels, thank you. Okay, great. So when you're working with a coach, consultant or a course creator, can you describe your psychology behind crafting?

Jennifer Tamborski:12:05
It is.

12:29 · How to build a funnel that actually converts

Jordan:12:29
a highly converted.

Jennifer Tamborski:12:31
Right, so funnels are all going to be dependent on what they're selling, right? I don't have a one size fits all strategy. I'm very much, this is customized to the person, because somebody who doesn't do well in front of a camera, like they're just awkward for whatever reason, a webinar is not going to do well for them, right? Or even a VSL. those aren't gonna do well for them. So maybe we do something like a download or a quiz or something like that that's, that still gives the value that they were gonna give in the other options, but without them being in front of the camera until they get on a sales call. On the other side of that for people who are great at teaching or educating, then webinars or courses or low ticket offers, like there's a million ways to create a funnel. So I do think it's very custom to, who the person is and what they're selling. I will say in today's meta universe, low ticket offers are incredibly valuable to sell high ticket offers. Because when you bring, yeah, if you bring someone in and they buy something for $47 or $97, you can then sell them. I had a client.

Jordan:13:44
Low tickets are high.

13:53 · The $97 → $497 → $12,000 funnel that hit $75K months

Jennifer Tamborski:13:53
They brought them in at a $97 offer, upsell them to $497, and then sold a $12,000 offer. That was their funnel, and it was incredibly successful. Talking 75K months, successful. So we've found over the last year or two that low ticket offers have been incredibly successful to sell higher ticket offers.

Jordan:14:16
cannot agree more because the mindset behind a $47 buyer versus a free download is vastly different. Vastly different. Let's see here. you said something. If they are not a good talking head like me, have you heard of a Google slideshow VSL like a Dexcel? Yeah, that has worked. I don't own an ad agency now, but when I did,

Jennifer Tamborski:14:38
Yeah. Yeah.

Jordan:14:45
That is essentially one of the ways that we would, I guess, change the VSO into a, deck sales letter. And it worked like a charm. Like you said, webinars do crush depending on if you can articulate yourself well, if you can hold the presence of a crowd and also kind of how complex the offer is. If it's a brand new business opportunity, like a biz op offer, then I think webinars do perform a little bit better because you have to.

Explain how everything works blah blah blah well VSO with VSLs if it's an offer people kind of semi re understand Like a VSL or a three to five minute VSL crushes freaking crushes Do you add any? Text at the bottom of that video or is it just like headline sub headline video? call to action

15:34 · Live webinars vs evergreen what's winning right now

Jennifer Tamborski:15:34
So if we're talking about the video in the funnel, whether it's a webinar or, so I will say this about webinars, at least in today's day and age, live webinars work a whole lot better than evergreen webinars. People are tired of evergreen webinars. If you can get in a live webinar and can interact, can create interaction in there, they're gonna convert better. VSLs always have some subtext going on because somebody may be in their office when they sign up for something and like.

Jordan:15:44
Yes.

Jennifer Tamborski:16:02
can't actually listen to you. They have to read. So I would say on that front. But I do agree with you 100%. A webinar is better when it's something that's very new that people haven't heard of. Like our predictable clients program is very different than anything else out in the industry right now. And so it does require some explanation on why people would want to buy it. So a webinar is good for that. But if you are someone who sells I don't know, you're a bookkeeper and you sell bookkeeping. A VSL can be incredibly productive for you.

16:38 · Direct checkout vs book-a-call why Jennifer uses both

Jordan:16:38
Absolutely. Question on the, on the webinar. Do you have direct to checkout where they buy after the webinar or do you have at end of the webinar, a call to action to schedule a call with the sales rep and then they sell it. Yeah, both.

Jennifer Tamborski:16:51
both. I have both. And I would say, so I have a, because I love rewarding action takers. So if someone's going to buy immediately, I will give them a little bit of money off. So I have a $500 discount for buying on the webinar. So they have a checkout page. And then the second slide after that, after that fast accessing bonus is a, if you still have questions, here's a link to book a call so they can still get on a call with me.

Jordan:17:04
Yes.

Jennifer Tamborski:17:20
I think that's a way to kind of bridge the gap between the two, because there are going to be people that are ready. They don't want to talk to you. They really don't. Like there are so many people out there that just don't want to have a sales call and they're ready to buy right now. And you want to make sure that you're capitalizing on that. But there are also people out there that just they're just not sure. Is this right for me? They just need a little bit more, especially cold traffic. Right. You run ads. this is the first time they're ever meeting you, they need a little bit more warmth, a little bit more hand holding along the way. And so having both of them kind of covers all of it.

Jordan:18:00
Yeah, I could not have said it better myself. There are some people who would love to just purchase directly, but others, they just want to ask a couple of questions. You know, they want that little extra certainty before purchasing a 5k tickets ticket size. an example, I'm going to say a name and I, and I, I think you know who this is. And if you don't, you need to look this person up right after this podcast. You will love this man. Do you know who Jeremy Haynes is on YouTube?

Jennifer Tamborski:18:27
I do not, that is not someone I follow.

Jordan:18:28
Okay. Your jaws are going to drop after you watch just one of his videos. So when you are conducting a VSOs, do you implement any back end selling systems for VSOs? What I mean by that is, is after they consume the VSO, they typically book a call for hopefully 72 hours or less. Do you have any content emails, pre-framing material that gets delivered between booking? and live consultation.

Jennifer Tamborski:18:58
Absolutely, you have to. You have to. Here's the thing. And yes, hopefully it's 72 hours. I generally don't let someone book more than like less. It has to be less than seven days. If we can get them faster, great. But once they booked all of those thoughts that itty bitty shitty committee in their head starts going on and on and on about like. this isn't right or what could go wrong or all of those kind of things. All of those negative thoughts start happening. So having emails coming in that validate why they want to continue to talk to you, to buy from you, all of that kind of stuff is essential. Case studies, social proof, any kind of content. I've used my podcast in the past as just validation content because you have to keep in mind, especially if they come in through a VSL or a webinar, they're pretty freaking cold still. So the more you can offer them of, actually know what I'm doing and talking about, the better off you're going to be long term.

Jordan:19:55
Yes.

Jordan:20:05
Absolutely. So the way he breaks it down, and I'm not coining any of this, but there's trust assets and sales assets. Sales assets are like VSOs, like behind the system walkthroughs, like shit that you would create to fucking sell somebody, right? Trust, trust moving assets are your podcast. There are third party reviews or a video testimonial, shit like that. Like literally you going on Reddit, creating a video. of you going on Reddit and looking up your company name and like going off, like reading the reviews that other people have left you. Like that is a trust building asset. So yes, those crush. When you do implement those two strategies, backend selling systems or trust building in sales assets, not only do you turn cold traffic into lay downs sometimes, you also increase your show percentage. Whenever you're dealing, you know, with cold traffic, depending on how dialed in your systems are.

People that are seeing like a 30, 40, know, hopefully 50 % or not hopefully, but like 30, 40, 50 % show rate. A good KPI to like really, really aim for is like 70, 80%. And what I do or have done in the past to increase that show percentage is not allowing them to book past 72 hours. I know you said a week, but we forget what the hell we ate for breakfast yesterday morning. We're going to forget we have a freaking sales call coming up in like five days from now. You know what I mean?

Jennifer Tamborski:21:28
You are right.

Jennifer Tamborski:21:34
You are 100 % right on that. The faster you can get it in or the shorter the time period to get them into a call, a million times on that. It's going to be, it's why, after my, when I do live webinars after the webinar, I actually have the day unblocked for the rest of the day. So someone can book a call immediately on that same day. And I always do them on Wednesday so that I have Thursday and Friday to take calls.

Jordan:21:34
So.

Jennifer Tamborski:22:02
so that we're not rolling into the next week or rolling over the weekend.

Jordan:22:07
I was just going to ask you what days do you conduct your webinars? Now I know what time do you conduct your Wednesdays.

Jennifer Tamborski:22:12
I do it at 1130 in the morning, 1130 central time. It crosses a lot of the time zones. There's not a perfect time. Especially if you're targeting nationally and not locally, there's just not a perfect time. So 1130 central is 1230 Eastern and it's, what is it, 930 Pacific. So it kind of gets those morning people and lunch people all at the same time.

Jordan:22:16
search look.

Jordan:22:43
For sure. it definitely does depend on who your demographic is, right? I've heard other gurus say that you should do it at night. You know, like if most of your people, they're working at nine to five, how the hell they're to watch your webinar when they're working, bro. You know?

Jennifer Tamborski:22:47
for sure.

Jennifer Tamborski:22:55
Absolutely. If your clients are working in corporate, do it in the evening. Do it on a weekend, like when they're not working. My clients are obviously entrepreneurs. They set their own schedule for the most part.

Jordan:23:04
Yes.

Jordan:23:11
Right. No, no, I wasn't critiquing, but just throwing that out there. I assume that you're running ads to drive traffic to your webinar. Talk to us about the Andromeda update and what your thoughts are and how we can combat the Andromeda update.

Jennifer Tamborski:23:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Tamborski:23:19
Absolutely,

23:28 · The Meta Andromeda update explained simply

Jennifer Tamborski:23:28
So the Andromeda update has been a, it's a bit of a learning curve. It was like the iOS 14 update, right? It threw a wrench into everything and just had a bit of a learning curve. The reality is, is right now Meta is pushing more and more and more into the AI, like allowing them to do things for you rather than hyper-targeting like we used to or things like that. They also have all kinds of buttons that they've turned on and off. that are irritating, but that's beside the point. The big things that you need to know about Andromeda is the amount of content you need. To test, you're probably looking at a minimum of 15 to 20 pieces of content. And when I say piece of, it doesn't necessarily need to be copy and headlines, because I'll tell you something about ads. 90 % of the people don't read the copy. It really is the creative that make ads work.

Jordan:24:08
There we go.

Jennifer Tamborski:24:27
So if you can have 15 pieces of creative, Meta wants you to be running five to six of them at a time.

I don't all the time because Meta has stupid ways of looking at things. So sometimes you have to turn things off because Meta thinks it's producing, but it's not really producing because it's looking at like your click through rate, which may be 3%, but then no one's actually registered. So you've just spent $50 to get people to land on your page. That doesn't make sense because it wasn't bringing in the right people. that is their current, like if you talk to any of the Meta customer service, and I use that term very loosely. People who work for Meta, that is what they're going to suggest is for you to be using five or six pieces of creatives at a time to test. It is a volume of testing things because of the way they're doing things, things run out. Now, I will say their AI creatives are getting better. They used to be really, really bad. But if you give them, like if you give them a blank background with just some copy on it. They'll take the copy and they'll put it on different images. And you can create 15 pieces of content with one messaging angle and let meta play and see what happens. So those are some of the things that, you know, that they've kind of been leaning into. I don't really think Andromeda is that scary in all reality. I think people...

Jordan:25:45
Okay.

26:05 · Why Andromeda isn't as scary as people think

Jennifer Tamborski:26:05
People played it up a lot more just like they did with iOS 14 and 15. You know, there was this big fear. It really was just a matter of adjusting how we're working with it.

Jordan:26:16
No, for sure. From my understanding, it's essentially ad fatigue on steroids. So let's go pre Andromeda. If you had a killer video and messaging was dialed in, it was getting all sorts of traffic that was premium traffic. That can probably last you six, maybe even nine months, that one fricking ad. Now with Andromeda, you're lucky if that one video creative gets you two weeks, two months max, right? Now here's the fricking catch. If you have, as you're saying, five or six different videos or static ads inside of that campaign. Because you have a diverse group of ads, that one ad that would have lasted nine months pre-Andromeda can now today in Andromeda still take you six to nine months, as long as you have the other diverse creatives in that campaign. And that's basically it, dude. That's basically fun.

Jennifer Tamborski:27:10
Yes.

And that's, yeah, that's the idea behind it. What I've seen in practice though is yes, Metta does, you'll have one winning campaign, but your cost per lead or whatever will tend to go up because Metta is feeding money into all of the other, the things that aren't working, which is why I said you are correct in that you need more volume of it.

So my suggestion is rather than having a ton of random messaging, find a couple of angles that work and then create them in your static image, a carousel, B-roll, face to camera. So all four of them are saying the same freaking thing, but you at least have four different types of creatives running, which feeds Andromeda without diluting what you're trying to do.

Jordan:28:09
Right there. I think you know that that is the diversity that met is looking for it could be the same message but like you said static b-roll talking head those are entirely different angles in Metas eyes, right and one more thing that I learned from Jeremy Haynes if you haven't realized huge fucking fan, but he was saying ask yourself all of like think about all of the reasons why someone would purchase your product or your service If you really, really boil it down, there's not just three reasons. Like there's 10, 15 reasons. If you really, really fricking think about it, right. Now, once you have this answer or these answers, you would essentially want to create content based on all 15 different reasons. Because we are trying meta. When I say we, I'm meta all of sudden. Meta is trying to personalize the algorithm and our feed just so we stay on the platform.

Right now, the way that we can get our ads to convert more is if we have a diverse set of messaging and a diverse, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what to call static and be rolling video, but like how that's different form. Thank you. Different formats. Cause I'm going to convert a whole lot better on a static ad, opposed to me watching a video. Just whenever I'm scrolling, wherever I'm doom scrolling.

Jennifer Tamborski:29:19
Just creatives, yeah, diverse creatives.

Jordan:29:35
God forgive me. Whenever I'm doom scrolling, I'm not gonna watch a video,

Jennifer Tamborski:29:38
For sure. I don't watch videos either. That being said, will, a video that has like static copy on it that just has like a video running in the back B roll, but the copy doesn't move, it's static copy. I will land on that. I will stop on that. I will read that. But if the copy is, right, exactly. If the copy is moving and I have to wait for the next thing to come up, you've lost me.

Jordan:29:56
Because you're reading,

Jennifer Tamborski:30:04
But as we said earlier, we're both a little neuro spicy. So our attention span isn't necessarily as high as some other people. And that's why creative diversity is important because some people need that face to camera communication. And some people need to watch a little bit more or have that engagement a little bit more or scroll it through a carousel. Some people really like the carousels.

30:33 · How to structure a high-converting webinar minute by minute

Jordan:30:33
Right, right. No, true. So true. I want to talk to you about your structure for the webinar, if you don't mind. How, if you can give us timestamps on like for the first five minutes I do this, the next five minutes I do this, obviously generalizing here, but yeah, do you mind going into that?

Jennifer Tamborski:30:49
Right? Not at all. So I've tried a million different ways. Like I've been in this business for a very long time. What I've found that works well with my audience is getting them engaged really fast. So the first five minutes isn't teaching anything. It's literally engaging them with, you know, I have a couple of questions in there and I'm just going to give some generic ones. It's, you know, type of thing, but like questions about

Jordan:31:05
Yes.

Jennifer Tamborski:31:18
Where are at revenue wise? What's your problem in business? And give them three options. That way you don't have people raising their hand necessarily, but they're engaging in the chat. So you're actually, it gives you a multitude of benefits. One, you're getting them engaged really quickly, but two, you're also seeing like, if you know these are the three or four things that I think my ideal clients are having a problem with and you see 90 % of them pick B. then you know you need to create more content around that, right? So it's that whole quiz kind of opportunity there. I do at the end of those first couple of questions, open the floor to one or two people and say, hey, do you have a problem right now that you would like some feedback on? And look at that from the perspective of these people don't know me. And if I can give them a reason to listen to the rest of this, we're going to be 100 % better.

Then I move into the, it's like three slides of these are your problems. Like this is your problem, this is your pain point, this is why it's a problem. Here's who I am, introduce me. And then I go into a little bit of like, here's what the offer, like teasing the offer, not necessarily laying it out there, but teasing it. Case studies, the offer, and know, investment, close. pretty much it.

Jordan:32:47
No, you're good. I think you said something really valuable and I want to articulate myself correctly and properly here. On a live webinar, you are taking the time to open up the floor to your listeners, your viewers, and provide them value for free. Like you said, that builds trust, it builds the law of reciprocity, it builds goodwill, and more importantly, it showcases your expertise, right?

Jennifer Tamborski:33:16
Yeah.

Jordan:33:16
So to kind of go into a little bit of what we do at a high level, we run cold email. I used to own an ad agency. You said it earlier on the pod, the barrier to entry for businesses to partner with an ad agency is a lot higher than partnering with a cold email agency. Now, what really separates us, there's two things. I'll ignore the first one. The second one is we don't ask for time in the call as the call to action in the email.

We say, hey, we have this free lead magnet that's personalized to your company. Do you want me to send it over? Like who doesn't want a free deliverable? Who doesn't want a free value thing? Right? So typically they say yes. And what really, why it works so well is because it's personalized to the company and two, like it's good. It's it's showcasing our expertise. It's diagnosing problems. It's giving you action items to take. If you want it to implement this on your own, or you can just pay us and we'll do it for you. Right.

That's essentially how me and our clients generate sales. getting back to leading with value, just build so much goodwill with your ICP, maybe in today's age, I was like this as a younger business owner and a younger sales rep where I wanted to sell. I'm like, fuck giving value. I'm like, I want your money. I'm trying to sell some shit. You know what I mean? But I had to learn that value first always, always feeds you.

Jennifer Tamborski:34:42
I will say yes and to that. Yes, value is definitely important. And if you over deliver value, if you give them so much that they don't freaking need you, then why are they gonna pay you? So we think there's this delicate balance. And also on the other side of it, that's why I love low ticket offer so much, because you can provide value and someone's paying for you.

I tend to believe, while my webinar, yes, it works, it's great, it's all of the things, I tend to believe that people, more often than not, it's why webinars tend to convert at such a low conversion rate. Like if you get 10 to 20 % of a conversion rate on your webinar, you're doing great on average. Exactly. But I think 10 to 20 % of a conversion rate on a webinar is mainly, or lower, is mainly because

Jordan:35:28
It crushes, crushes, yeah.

Jennifer Tamborski:35:38
People don't value free things as much as they do things they've paid for.

Jordan:35:45
I agree with that.

Jennifer Tamborski:35:46
So if you have even a $27 offer, even if you charge them $27 and you give them value and you help them do whatever the thing it is you do, it is definitely going to be more productive long-term because you're bringing in people who value, they valued what you were giving them enough to give you money.

Jordan:36:09
I do agree with you on that. Have you heard Alex Formozzi say, like, give away everything for free, sell the implementation? That's kind of my philosophy with doing the lead magnets is maybe we don't give away the whole farm, okay? But we give a lot of information away for free. And because it's like, damn, this person knows what they're talking about. This is clearly the expert. I don't have time to implement this on my own. Like, I'm a busy entrepreneur.

Jennifer Tamborski:36:26
right.

Jordan:36:38
I have a small team, like there's other freaking fish I have to fry. I'm just going to pay this guy, who's clearly the expert, to do it for me. So I see your side. I also think that it depends on who the audience is.

Jennifer Tamborski:36:53
That's what I was gonna say. It depends on what you're selling because I will say for those of us that are implementers, yes, that makes perfect sense. Like this is all of the things that could be done. We'll take care of it for you. That makes 100 % sense. But if you're out there selling, I don't know, your life coach or whatever and you're selling confidence, whatever. If you give them everything, they feel like they already know it.

Jordan:37:16
Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Tamborski:37:23
and then they don't need to buy from you.

Jordan:37:26
But I also feel like with coaching and consulting, they're paying for that accountability. They're paying for that support. They're paying to ask questions.

Jennifer Tamborski:37:33
sometime.

That's while that is true. That's not why people actually buy. That's not that's not why they're buying. They're buying because they think you can fix whatever their problem is. So if they feel like you fixed that problem because you gave them three things to do without them paying for it, then they don't need you anymore. And it is very much a mindset type of thing.

Jordan:37:41
Why do they?

Jordan:38:01
What do mean by mindset type thing on who's who's part customer or seller?

Jennifer Tamborski:38:06
A little of both, a little of both, but primarily the customer. A buyer journey, if you're looking at it from that perspective, and it's going to depend on who your buyer is, right? But a lot of buyers, if you come in and you're like, here is the blueprint to fix your life, here you go, 80 % of them are going to go, OK, great. I just do this, this, this, and this. And then they're going to set it on their shelf. They're not actually going to do it because you and I both know they're never going to do it.

Jordan:38:08
Okay.

Jordan:38:30
This is

Jennifer Tamborski:38:35
but they're also not going to pay you for it because you've already given them the blueprint. So they know what they should be doing. And because they know what they should be doing, they think they can figure it out themselves.

Jordan:38:50
Right, why would I pay you if you just gave me the blueprint? Gotcha.

Jennifer Tamborski:38:53
Exactly.

Jordan:38:56
With, offers that we help clients scale with, will say it's less of an info product, like coaching or consulting and more so like a done for you service. And I think that difference right there is what allows sure clients to be successful. But I will wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying, because as you and I sound like we're pretty similar. If you give me the information, I will take action. If it's something I actually want to learn, right.

Jennifer Tamborski:39:13
Absolutely.

Jordan:39:26
So if you give me all the freaking, you know, all the gold for free, thank you so much. I'm take that shit and I'm gonna run, you know? So yeah, that makes sense.

Jennifer Tamborski:39:33
Exactly. Exactly. So I think I just think there's a balance. It all depends on who you are, who your audience is and what you're selling. I think and there's there's a it's not really a good or bad. I think you can try both and find out which one actually turns it. And that's one of the things I love about marketing is that I actually look at it as kind of a science experiment. I actually

Jordan:39:49
for sure. 100%.

Jordan:39:58
It is.

Jennifer Tamborski:40:00
I have a biology degree and so the scientific method is kind of how I run marketing. And so we create this hypothesis, we test it, we look at the data, and then we make changes from there. So if you have two different hypothesis running at the same time, two science experiments, and find out, just be very clear about tracking it. So you actually, like we were talking about earlier, you know what actually worked, not what didn't work. Yes, that's important, but you have to know what's working.

Jordan:40:10
So, yes.

Jordan:40:30
Yeah, there's no worse punch in the stomach than that right there. Do you want to change directions slightly? What are you looking forward to in 2026 for either the consultancy side or the dump resource side?

Jennifer Tamborski:40:37
Yeah.

Jennifer Tamborski:40:46
I actually so again, going back to the whole neuro spicy thing, I have an attention span of a nap. So I love the consulting side of things. I love the hybrid side because we're constantly bringing in new things. And my favorite thing to do is strategy. Like I love looking at like the whole picture, your offer, your messaging, everything and coming up and developing the strategy.

Jordan:40:55
Yeah.

Jennifer Tamborski:41:10
So for every client that comes in the door, we get to develop a new strategy for them. And that makes me the most excited. It's not that I don't love, like there's, do think with a done for you side of the agency, for me, I'm not looking to build 900 people under me, right? I like the more boutique side of it. So there's a cap on how many clients we can come in. But with the consulting side, because it's 10 weeks, I'm constantly bringing in new clients with new ideas and new projects and new. programs and all of that kind of stuff. And I love that.

Jordan:41:46
Have you thought to yourself what your capacity actually is? I was talking to my dad earlier today, because not to toot my own horn, but we're actually going pretty rapidly. And I'm like, I have to hire again, because I'm going to kill myself if I don't hire. Not literally, but there's a lot of work that has to fucking get done. And he asked me, he's like, have you thought about how many people you can take on before you need help? And I'm like, that's a good fucking question. I'm gonna ask myself. Yeah, so what's your answer, if you don't mind going into that?

Jennifer Tamborski:42:00
Yes.

Jennifer Tamborski:42:11
absolutely. Absolutely. So for the done for you side of things, I actually sat down with a fractional COO who we mapped out like this whole thing, like this whole plan of like what the capacity really was. And for the done for you side, it's six clients, right? At six clients, which we've already gone beyond, but whatever, like at six clients, for every six clients, I have to hire a new ad manager because I...

Jordan:42:25
Yeah.

Jennifer Tamborski:42:39
don't have the capacity and I know most of the ad managers don't have capacity beyond six clients, right? So for every six clients, we have to hire someone else. Hiring a project manager and you I actually have a graphic design team already that I use. So that's outside of that. For the capacity for the hybrid program for the predictable clients program is actually right now 10 clients a month.

That's our capacity. That's how many strategies I'm willing to do a month for that. So right this second, it's 10 clients after, you know, I don't know. I don't know from there where we'll go. But the nice thing is it's 10 clients every month. So every month, 10 new clients are coming in. And my ads team only has those clients for four weeks, right? So every other month, they're getting a new set. of clients.

Jordan:43:38
No, for sure. I definitely see what you're saying.

Jennifer Tamborski:43:41
So I think it's more scalable, honestly, than the done for eat.

Jordan:43:46
It is 1 million percent more scalable. A donkey versus a horse is a million percent more scalable. It's 10 strategies a month. Is that one on one strategies or like group coaching? For sure, for sure. Yeah, those are not donkey, but those take a lot out of you. You know, like it's deep creative work.

43:49 · How Jennifer works 3 days a week without burning out

Jennifer Tamborski:43:49
Hahahaha

Jennifer Tamborski:43:53
Hahaha

Jennifer Tamborski:43:59
No, that's one-on-one strategy calls. Yeah.

Jennifer Tamborski:44:06
I, yep, it is, it is. And the reason I do 10 a month is because I can do two, I only, so my workload, the way I've said it, is I work three weeks a month in the business and then one week is CEO time, right? Where it may be vacation time, whatever, but one week a month, I'm not working in the business, which means that I do strategy calls on Tuesdays, so three Tuesdays a month.

I can do three calls and then one week I'll have a fourth call if we do 10 that month. But that allows my capacity to not burn out.

Jordan:44:44
I was just going to say that shit. amount of times I have fucking burnt, I cuss a lot. Sorry. The amount of times I've burnt out dude from going like, I don't know, 10 plus hour days, seven days a week, not taking care of my physical health or mental health. I always do some stupid shit to just sabotage my business, my fricking love life, like my life in general, you know? So I'm consciously being proactive about taking some personal time, bro. Like the business is not going to, you know,

Jennifer Tamborski:44:49
You're fine.

Jordan:45:14
destroy itself overnight if you fucking take one or two days off. You know what I mean? So I'm glad you do that.

Jennifer Tamborski:45:19
If it is, then we get to talk about what your operations and your implementation and all of that kind of stuff looks like. Because reality is, is if you can't take a week off a month, we probably have a... No one builds a business. No one builds a business to work 40 hours a week or 80 hours a week, 365 days a year. That is not why people build their business.

Jordan:45:43
Right. That's true.

Jennifer Tamborski:45:45
They built it for freedom. They built it to be able to live the life they want, all of that kind of stuff. But the problem is, is a lot of us get into this mindset of a corporate worker. I have to work 40 hours a week. No, you don't. You really don't. You get to structure your business how it works for you.

Jordan:46:05
I get excited. Do you think it's the fucking culture we have in America where it's like you need to work and if you don't work you're a fucking loser for not working? Yeah.

Jennifer Tamborski:46:10
yes.

Yes, yes, yes. The US has it the worst, I think, than anywhere else in the world. But the US really does have a culture of you have to work hard in order to make money. You don't. You know how many people out there don't work hard. And hard is relative, right? It's not that they're not using their skills or their ability or their training or whatever.

Jordan:46:31
That's a mindset, yeah?

Jennifer Tamborski:46:41
But you don't have to work 40 to 80 hours a week. You just don't. I work three days a week. I work Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Mondays and Fridays. Mondays are my intro into the week kind of days, like planning, all of that kind of stuff. Fridays, I wrap up, but I am done by noon. If I'm not off the entire day.

Jordan:47:02
man, that sounds like the life right there. Jennifer, go.

Jennifer Tamborski:47:07
I will tell you though, I am almost 20 some odd years into this and I did what you did in the beginning. I did what you're doing now. I worked 40, 60 hours a week. I hit a wall. I literally shut the entire business down for almost two solid years. I had to go through burnout. So.

47:09 · Jennifer's burnout story and how she rebuilt everything

Jordan:47:22
Yeah.

47:28 · Jordan's burnout story rock bottom, drinking, and starting over

Jordan:47:28
Yeah, if I can explain, I guess, my burnout story. So yeah, I locked myself in my room, worked literally every day for 10 plus hours. I did not hit the gym and I love the gym. I play baseball my whole life. I fucking love working out. I love being outside. After like six months of that, I basically self sabotaged my romantic relationship.

I went on like a bender of drinking again, like getting really personal, like a week long bender of drinking, shut the business down, broke up with my girlfriend. Like I had to check myself in cause I couldn't stop like all this fucking bullshit from just working too damn much. Like just take a break, dude. Like just go outside, you know, look at the sun, you know, but now I'm good. Promise you now I'm good. yeah.

Jennifer Tamborski:48:14
Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. I think not enough people have boundaries around their business, around their business. Their business, I always used to say my agency, my original agency ate my life.

Jordan:48:27
Hahaha.

48:28 · Why your business should never eat your life

Jennifer Tamborski:48:28
It did, like it ate my life. was in, I remember being on a bus, we had gone to Universal with our kids. I was on a bus going over to Bush Gardens and I'm putting out client fires on my phone.

Jordan:48:43
Hmm

Jennifer Tamborski:48:46
You're not paying attention to your family then. You're not involved. You're not engaged. You're not present. And that's one of those like vivid memories. Every time I start to go down that rabbit hole of like, I just need to work more. I'm like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. We don't. Like it's not necessary. I honestly can get more work done in six hours than most people get done an entire week. I know that. So I don't feel the need to overwork anymore.

49:15 · Where to find Jennifer & her new podcast launch

Jordan:49:15
That's awesome. Jennifer, I did not expect to have this much freaking fun with you, but I fucking had a blast. This is my favorite podcast for me for sure. I would love to invite you again in like six to 12 months to see how things are. It's a more game on marketing, but really quick, where can they find you?

Jennifer Tamborski:49:24
you Absolutely.

Jennifer Tamborski:49:34
So the easiest way to find me is virtualmarketingexpert.com. That's my website. It's also my handle on Instagram, on Facebook, on LinkedIn. If you go to YouTube, Marketing Matchmaker is actually the podcast that I had going there for a while. It is actually changing. I'm relaunching in June a new podcast called Beyond the Guessing Game. And so that's coming up. I'll let you know.

Jordan:50:03
No, that's awesome. And we'll of course leave all the info on the show notes as well. But yeah, again, Jennifer, was really fun. Audience, we love you. We'll talk to you soon.