Amina Gajieva on Growing an Agency Without Spending on Marketing

Jordan Lally:0:00
Welcome back to the High Ticket AI Systems Podcast. Everyone, please welcome the one and only Mrs. Amina Gajiva. Amina, welcome to the show. How you doing?

Amina:0:08
Hi Jordan. Hi everybody. And thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy we're doing this finally and I can't wait. I can't wait to kick it off.

Jordan Lally:0:16
Absolutely yes. We are very, very blessed to have you on the show as as you. I'm very excited myself. Now really quick, 'cause I know you're not in the States or even in North America right now, so do you mind sharing a bit about the geographical location and of course your like a high level overview of of you in the company.

Amina:0:36
Course. I'm Amina. Hi everybody again. and originally I'm from Russia. and yeah, two years ago, more than two years ago, I actually started my PR agency, influencer marketing agency in the States in Florida, and that's where my clients are, that's where my job is, that's the time zone that I work in. Like my life is happening in Florida, but physically I am traveling around a lot.

And currently right now I'm in Russia. And and yeah, and I'm in this business in marketing for eight years. And I was working for a lot of companies, a lot of brands, a lot of agencies, in London, in LA, in Manchester. I was working in China, in South Korea. So yeah, life kinda was throwing me around. and yeah, two years ago I when I decided to start my agency. yeah, I just picked the the country where you know, the majority of my network connections and the people that I know and brands that I know were located, which is the states and that's where my heart is basically, along with my business. So yeah, that's just to give you like a very brief overview.

Jordan Lally:1:55
No, for sure. When it comes to finding, I guess, ideal clients, is it primarily networking in person, shaking hands? I imagine you're a pretty good network.

Amina:2:05
Thank you. Actually, for this type of business, or maybe it's just it's just the way it works for me, but yeah, all the clients that we have are purely network connections, referrals, and one thing that I would l that I also like you know, I it's it's not that I'm ragging or showing off, but we never invested a single dollar in marketing or sales. and all the clients that we have, they are just, you know, people knowing what I do and recommending my service to one another. So that's how we got all the clients. And just recently I decided that okay, network is not an endless source, so we have to We have to find other ways to acquire clients and find and make new connections. And we started investing some effort and some little money into sales. But yeah, it's a it's it's a pretty it's a pretty good way to explore and find your channel because for some businesses, paid ads work great. For some businesses, it's just you know, offline events. So you really have to find your way and for us, yeah, for for two years it was just networking, me talking to people, because I found it the one of the most effective ways for us to find clients is me actually connecting with people and yeah annoying them with a lot of conversation with a lot of questions and talking but it were it it works great but yeah we are currently exploring other tools and other ways and I'm excited about it to be honest, because there's there there there's so much to explore yet. And I'm I'm I'm sure that by the end of this year we will find another like strong channel that we can find clients through and yeah, we'll see we'll see how that goes.

Jordan Lally:4:11
No, networking and relationships are extremely powerful, especially because of nowadays. I mean, I'm super grateful that, you know, we're here on the podcast and we do have the ability to do it remotely. But there's nothing nothing beats, you know, shaking someone's hand, getting the like feeling the energy in person, like building that in person trust. For me, whenever I go to in person events, I feel like I see a spike in revenue sales, which is always super cool. Because of that trust that I built. But just tonight to to close the loop here,

Amina:4:15
Absolutely.

Amina:4:33
Yeah.

Jordan Lally:4:40
Relationships, like the more hands you shake, the more, you know, obviously the more money that you'll make. There is always a thing I learned in in business and I feel like networking events or just networking in general, it it's never gonna go wrong. It's always a a benefit and a powerful thing to do. When you say you own a PR agency and influencer marketing company, can you give us like some examples of like the industries and the like verticals you hope?

Amina:4:56
Absolutely.

Amina:5:09
Absolutely. well we started as an influencer marketing agency two years ago and we provided only influencer marketing service. So what we did is basically we connected brands, our clients, with influential people, influencers, opinion leaders, celebrities, so whatever you see on a social media, like a link in a bio, that kind of thing. We were doing that. but recently I and you know, for our long-term clients like in-house, internally, we were also providing some PR services, like for free, like you know, additional perks, like a bonus. And it would be like a media coverage or articles or podcast appearances, maybe some PR event support, something like that. So and then maybe like a month ago, because now when we you know, started talking to a lot of additional brands and we started expanding our network. of course a lot of conversations started happening with brands and we after talking to them, I just realized that not everybody needs influencer marketing. And I have I and I cannot sell influencer marketing to somebody when I know that that person doesn't need it. So it it cannot even I cannot even spit it out. You know, like you need influencers.

Because they don't. So I felt I felt guilty and of course I don't know, maybe maybe I'm being too too human about it. But yeah, I just I just realized that you know it doesn't make sense. And plus my goal when I when I have a client, my goal is to keep them long term and to and to do that in order to do that, you need to provide value long term as well.

Jordan Lally:6:49
Damn you. I'm kidding. No, you're right, you're right.

Amina:7:07
And if I know that okay, this channel, influencer marketing, is not gonna deliver long term. It's gonna be just one time success, maybe not a big one, still just a little bit. And that that and then I will lose that client. And I will lose that connection. It's super valuable. You know that how valuable each connection is. You have to nurture it. So and then I started thinking, okay, what else I can do for brands to help them, to help them grow.

I cannot just, you know, start offering something that I'm not an you know, that I'm not familiar with just in order to offer something. And we sat down with my team and we started thinking about okay, what other expertise we have, what our what our skills, what our skill set is, like w what else we can offer. And yeah, we started analyzing everything that we were doing for our long-term clients, all the events that we managed and planned and executed for them all the articles and everything and we were doing a lot of PR for our company as well. And yeah, and we we came up with this idea that PR is you know is something that it's not getting old, it's just changing a lot. you know, like anything, influencer marketing included, it's changing too. So you just have to adapt to it and By that time we had a lot of resources, we had a lot of connections in that industry and experience, some case studies. So we were ready. We just, you know, we were ready to to offer something something new, something that we haven't offered before, but still valuable to our clients. And and yeah, that's how expansion happened. of course At the beginning when we just started expanding and telling our long term clients or old connections what we do, it was like Jesus Christ, I have to go over that again and again and introduce the company all over again. my god. And then there is a website that you have to change you have to change, then case study. And then at some point, to be honest with you, I was like, was it a good idea though to to to do that?

Amina:9:26
But now when I see that okay, we have a couple new companies joining us as as clients and we do PR, we do something absolutely different for them. And that's so exciting that we can help them through something that we haven't done before, like externally. There was not a service like that before. And and and yeah, that's how we That's how we expanded. And I believe that yeah, at the beginning it was a little bit of a headache for me, especially. A couple of sleepless nights and all that. We went through all of it. but but yeah, now we now we are, you know, doing everything that we can and everything that we're good at and hope that yeah, more clients will benefit from that, of course.

Jordan Lally:10:18
You said that PR has changed over the past few years, and what do you feel like has changed the most?

Amina:10:26
platforms. everything is going online obviously. And PR maybe ten years ago, maybe even like five years ago, it was not so much in the digital world. and even the articles back in the days there were not there was no such thing as a backlink. There was no the if there's an article, there is an article. If there is a press release, there is a press release.

Now all the media coverage, you can include back backlinks. It can, you know, you can get some traffic to your website. Back in the days, it was like, you know, n it was not it was not in practice. People didn't practice it that much. So and a lot of changes like this, they are happening. And if you know, back in the days we could walk around and see h giant billboards, we still see them, but do they sell? How can you measure, you know?

How can you track how many people saw, how many people bought just looking at that billboard? Now everything is possible. And you can even you can use the same billboard, but there's a little QR code that you have and you can track how many people actually scanned it and how many people actually saw that. Back in the days it was not possible. There was a billboard, good, yeah.

But you cannot, there is that's it. You you see it, and then you know, the other side, the brand, they cannot track if you came after you saw the billboard. And that's the change that I see. Now everything is measurable in PR, especially. PR was the least manageable channel back in the days. Now it's getting more and more measurable. you can really track and calculate return on investment. That's something that we also implement. we implemented that before, I mean, when we started, and now it's just also a strong part of our service. So yeah, PR, I would say even if it's still offline, you can still track it. Back in the days, it was not possible. and I honestly back then I was not involved that heavily in PR. And I I always questioned myself, like, why why would people like how?

Amina:12:49
You s you you sp you pay a lot of money to to have your ad on the billboard, but what do you do with that? I mean, my mind is so about you know, numbers and all the spreadsheets and the the the formulas and s the return on investment. My my br I think yeah, that's that's how my brain works now. So for me it's actually interesting. and that's that's a little research that I do on my own, when I have free time, which is at night because I The rest of the day is busy. but yeah, I I I'm doing this little research and yeah, if you're interested I can I can share that with you a little bit later in a couple of weeks.

Jordan Lally:13:30
I was gonna say what are your findings, but yeah, we can circle back to that for sure. I mean, think about your the case studies that you have, right? Like whenever you pair up verticals and the type of PR or the type of influencer marketing that you did for them. Can you give us like one or two examples? I guess the info that I want to extract is like this specific campaign for this specific company performed well because of XYZ. Just to see if we can help out any other influencer marketing company out there.

Amina:13:34
Of course.

Amina:13:57
Course, there is one campaign we did for a Chinese brand and I'm really I'm I'm proud of it, honestly. okay, so it was it was a it those are the best, right? The ones that you're proud of. so I was you know I was working with this Chinese client and they are big in China, but they wanted to launch in the States. it's a LED face mask.

And they really wanted to launch that, you know, the creepy looking one. and they really w You've seen those, right? I I have one actually. They they gifted to me. I can I can take a picture and then we can put it on a thumbnail or something.

Jordan Lally:14:31
I don't think you like yes. Absolutely, yeah.

I know a bunch of girls that I would, yeah.

Jordan Lally:14:47
I like that. Good idea.

Amina:14:48
I work in marketing. so yeah, so they wanted to launch in the States and they came to us and we they they came to us and they said okay we have this expensive product, it's over 300 bucks, so it's pretty expensive. and and we are ready to to give it away to just send it to influencers for free, but we are not ready to pay additional fee. And I was like, Okay, that's a challenge.

But we love challenges. and they really want it to go big, you know, like we want we want hundreds of influencers to wear our mask in like random places, you know, everywhere at the airport, you know, in the shower. I was like, okay, calm down, let me do this. and nice team, really. I loved working with them because they're so, you know, driven and passionate about their product. So it's always nice to work with this kind of people.

So anyway, I came up with this campaign. I was like, okay, we have an expensive product and we have no fee for influencers. So I came up with this ambassador program. So what it meant, it's like everybody knows ambassador program that you know you post you get a product for free, you don't get paid, but then you post about it, you have a you know, you know, you have your custom link and then whoever buys from your link, you get a commission. That's a standard strategy. But in my head, and I just I started thinking as an influencer, okay, they send me this product. Am I motivated enough to post about it? Like ten percent from each sale? It's like what, thirty bucks, thirty something bucks? Mm Maybe I don't know, maybe my mind is too materialistic, or maybe I was making enough money, so 30 bucks wasn't sexy for me. and I was like, okay, we need we need to come up with this, we need to make it more exciting for influencers. So my idea was that after they post with the link, if if they sell one or two products, they get 10% from each sale. If they sell three products,

Amina:17:07
three four they get fifteen percent if they sell more five and more they get twenty five I think it was twenty or twenty five percent and after they sell the fifth product they get one hundred percent and and that was that was a fire we were so proud of that campaign because it delivered so okay we sent a lot of we sent a lot of Products. it was over 300 ambassadors on board. And all of them they made 2.4 million dollars in return on investment. 2.4 million dollars. My gosh. And they didn't pay any fee to influencers, nothing. It was just a product exchange. And influencers they started making you know quite some money. we had like a pool of 20 something ambassadors they were they like really strong and they were you know selling constantly every month like you know 10, 15 20 products each influencer so so that you know that model that I had that that structure actually worked really really great and then that brand the same brand they launched another product for sport people and They came back to us and they were like, We wanna we want the same success for this product to end yeah, we did we did another campaign, but it's a whole other story.

Jordan Lally:18:45
You said for sports people?

Amina:18:47
Yeah, it's like a LED panel, like for muscle pain relief.

Jordan Lally:18:53
I definitely need one of those, dude. I feel like my body's always sort of you know.

Amina:18:55
Well we'll we'll talk we'll talk about it after I'll tell you something you need to know.

Jordan Lally:19:01
For sure, for sure. Were you the mastermind behind that commission structure? Because for me, if you want people to work with you, if you want people to just I guess do what you want them to do from a business perspective, like you gotta incentivize them well. Right. And if there's zero incentive in incentivization past the first sale, like if I'm gonna earn ten percent regardless of of how many I sell.

Amina:19:18
Of course.

Jordan Lally:19:27
Sure, I'm incentivized, but like you said, I'm like, it's only 30 bucks. But the more I sell, the more I'm incentivized now. Like if I'm a driven person, I'm gonna want to more, right? I I'm a big believer that your composition structure or compensation structure, excuse me, compensation structure should be it should attract a players. And typically, a players want to get rich. Like they just want to make as as much money as as humanly possible, right? So if you can design that for them, you'll attract top talent.

Amina:19:35
Yeah. Yep.

Jordan Lally:19:57
Thoughts on that? Yeah.

Amina:19:57
Course. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a it's a it's it's a nice perspective. I totally agree with you. And of course that structure worked really great with the type of influencers that we were working with because I'm a strong believer in smaller influencers when it comes to sales. So selling with big influencers a little bit hotter, because the only thing that sells in influencer marketing is the connection that influencers have with their audience.

And I al I always teach that our clients, I always explain that because they they come to me and they're like, We want influencers with millions of followers and we want them to sell to big group of people. Like it's not it doesn't work that way. Big influencers they're good for brand awareness and they want they they will never say yes to this commission structure. They don't they don't can I can I say things like in on your podcast? No, no, no. I'll

Jordan Lally:20:54
You can cuss? Yes, you can say whatever you want.

Amina:20:58
Let's let's let's keep it professional. So they don't care.

Amina:21:07
They don't care, right? Big influencers, they they make a lot of money from each collaboration they have and they will never say yes to this kind of structure. So for big influencers, when for example, I work with a brand and they they tell me, okay, even for big influencers, we don't have a budget. I'm like, okay, but are you willing to share you know, revenue, but like a big portion of your revenue from the sales or maybe equity? Some startups, for example, that I worked with.

They shared equity with with one big influencer. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say his name, but he's really big in health industry. And they really wanted to have him on board. So we unboarded the guy. But he asked, he d he's like, I don't care about your commission. I don't care about your fee. I want equity. And they gave him equity. So so yeah, it's I'll I'll I'll tell you after the call because I forgot I forgot what my NDA says

Jordan Lally:22:08
No worries, but honestly, smart play on the influencers part to take equity kind of because I come from a s a strong sales background and this is like how I can relate to it. It's there's really two options in sales. It's like a base like W-2 plus commission or one hundred percent commission. And essentially you get paid less commission whenever you take a base, but if you trust yourself and it sounded like this influencer marketer person. trusted his ability to go out there and sell more product, he was like, fuck that. I want I want profit. I want equity. And when you find yourself like that, like hell yeah, you're like, you want you want more commission or more upside. So hats off to him. Did they accept that offer? They did? Super cool.

Amina:22:43
Yeah.

Amina:22:51
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, it it works great with with startups because that's that's how they worked with me. For example, it was a different company. and I also had equity. I didn't have a salary. Yeah, I also asked for equity. Ha ha Well I was also smart. I was and then so

Jordan Lally:23:11
Look at you. Nice.

Jordan Lally:23:17
No, not so much. No, I've okay.

Amina:23:21
So yeah, they accepted it, but it's not just for a post. When you when you share equity with an influencer with someone big, they come on board as as ad as advisors. So because he was he is a big guy in this health industry, men's health industry. so he is a doctor, he is very knowledgeable guy. So He joined the team as advisor and we were, you know, developing an app for men's health. And he was, you know, telling that, okay, this is what I talk to my audience, I talk to, you know, people in the industry, and he would, you know, provide some insights. and those insights were used in app development. So so it's that kind of role. And sometimes he would mention the app on his social media as well, because you know.

He is on board now, he's a part of a team, so it's not just for post. So yeah, with bigger influencers, you of course you have to be flexible. You have to you have to provide different options because they are in this industry forever and they've done it all and they know what works for them. They are very picky, which I like to be honest. so whenever they say yes to you, it it means a lot.

And it means that this collaboration will will be profitable for both sides. But you have to provide, you have to, you know, like for employees, you have to you have to be you have to be sexy as an employer. You have to provide benefits. and and yeah, the same with big influencers. With smaller influencers, yeah, that commission structure worked perfect. but we of course we realized when they came back to us,

Jordan Lally:24:59
I think.

Amina:25:11
And they said we want influencers and okay, we have a lot of small influencers now. We want you know, like celebrity influencers. I was like for commission, no way. so and then they didn't wanna i'm talking about that Chinese product, and they you know, so we we the whole thing, the whole campaign was just small influencers. Big influencers, it's a totally different story. you have to keep your mind open, you have to you really have to listen and provide, you know, what they're asking for. Of course you have to meet in the middle, but, you know, it's a it's totally different collaboration.

Jordan Lally:25:50
I think what you're describing on the smaller influencer scales, like micro influencers, where they have like ten thousand, less like fifty thousand f I guess how many fathers do you have to have to be considered micro versus like I'm famous, fuck off.

Amina:25:57
Yeah.

Amina:26:04
Wow. Okay. Small influencers, like if we're talking about micro influencers, it's between 5000 to 50K, 100K, something like that. of course, a lot depends on other metrics. It's not just followers. the metrics that we check, and that's the first thing that we check, is engagement rate, of course. So that that is more important for us. and i if you if you yeah, in order to be a celebrity influencer you have to yeah, a million and plus. So yeah. And in between it's you know, mid tier or something like that.

Jordan Lally:26:48
Would you rather be famous or rich?

Amina:26:51
Rich, of course. What about you?

Jordan Lally:26:52
That was a rand random question. Okay, cool, cool, cool. Yeah, I I give a fuck about fame. Yeah, okay, cool.

Amina:26:58
I don't know if I can handle fame though.

Jordan Lally:27:04
Why not? What do you mean?

Amina:27:07
well I was I I don't know. I don't okay that's a good question though. Okay, but how can you monetize your fame? Why how would you do that?

Jordan Lally:27:08
I've been on the spotlight all the time.

Jordan Lally:27:19
Well, you can take equity in the company. You could be an influencer marketer.

Amina:27:21
Yeah.

You smart Jordan. Okay, okay. I changed my mind. I want fame.

Jordan Lally:27:30
I I I think when you when you are famous, I think you have more leverage in different ways. Meaning because you are famous, you might be able to like cut the line or like get dinner reservations at a XYZ restaurant where there's no reservations here. When you're as an example, right? When you're rich, but no one really like knows that you're famous, or no one knows that you're rich, not that you're ordinary, I'm sure like your appearance, like the watch that you're wearing.

Amina:27:46
Mm-hmm.

Jordan Lally:28:00
car that you like drive and pull up in that might you know give subtle ideas that this person might be famous like definitely rich. I don't know. I actually don't like the spotlight. I did playing baseball as a kid. Nowadays I feel like I'm a systems and processes kind of guy. I mean I do love marketing and sales. I do like 'cause I have to, but I really think that I'm like a behind the scenes guy, if that makes sense. Like it's so interesting. Growing up, I was like

Amina:28:13
Okay.

Amina:28:24
Hmm.

Have you been behind the scenes, like backstage life? Have you experienced that?

Jordan Lally:28:34
I don't think so. I don't think so, no.

Amina:28:37
Okay, we'll talk about we'll talk about something. I'll I'll share my experience and I'll tell you why I'm not I'm not drawn to that anymore. There's not really it's disgusting.

Jordan Lally:28:46
You're not drawn to me backstage anymore?

Jordan Lally:28:53
Are are you are you are we talking about like I guess what type of backstage? Like in a conference or like a music show?

Amina:28:59
N no, we're talking about backstage chill business.

Jordan Lally:29:02
Back I definitely know what goes on in the backstage. That's a little funny. yeah, we we can circle back to that later for sure. Okay. I would love to actually understand

Amina:29:04
Yeah. you guys, you're missing out. my god. Everybody who's listening to this podcast now, after we stop recording, my gosh, we're gonna we're gonna have a real talk after that. That should be paid content. That should be paid content.

Jordan Lally:29:27
Actually yeah though, 'cause I feel like you have a bunch of insider stories that a lot of people won't won't actually share.

Amina:29:32
Yeah. Just I'm not I'm not allowed to share a lot, so

Jordan Lally:29:38
The NDAs.

Amina:29:39
NDAs, exactly. They bite you in the ass.

Jordan Lally:29:44
No for sure. I am curious though, from a business front, when you are reaching out to these micro influencers or even like celebrities, do you have a like an approach that you like to stick with that is like genuine, human, and just like any approach at all really that you would love to share? 'Cause like for for marketing, like when when you are trying to sell the product via DM or sell the product over the phone or over cool email, there is like certain principles and philosophies that I think one should stick to in order to be successful, just like any process at all. do you have any like approach or

Amina:30:19
Yeah.

Ab of course. Of course. Absolutely. With I like I I I have two different ways and my approach is different depending on the size of an influencer. For example, with smaller influencers, I like joining little communities here and there. It's like sorry, it's for example it's a group chat on Instagram or Mah now it's my network. I have I have worked with so many influencers that it's just my my giant group chat and I can reach out to them. So I already I am they are familiar with what I do and brands that I work with. So whenever I reach out, so yeah, it's like, you know, it's it's it's a personal connection already. So yeah and with bigger influencers, of course it's it's slightly different. And I know a couple of managers. they manage big influencers and I can reach out to them And you know, the with bigger influencers, there is like a there are a couple of layers that you have to go through in order to sign a deal. But with bigger influencers, it's very important to have to keep to maintain that connection. With smaller influencers, they remember everybody that they worked with. because it's not, you know, their their schedule is not overloaded. So they remember. Bigger influencers, you can get lost like this.

So with bigger influencers, it's important to to stay in touch, to maintain relationship, to to attend you know, events that they attend, and just stay in touch with them. And whenever you reach out to them, you really have to think carefully, like, okay, this brand that I'm gonna, you know, talk about with this influencer, is it gonna resonate with them? Is it gonna be beneficial for them? Because big influencers, you have to remember that when you work with them.

Amina:32:16
Big influencers really care about who they work with. They they are super cautious because one wrong move, done. Their their career is done. So they're careful. And whenever you're about to offer a deal, even to a manager, you still have to think like three times, four times. Is it gonna is it gonna resonate with their audience? Is it gonna be beneficial for them what you're offering?

And with bigger influencers, yeah, you treat it more like a business partnership. and you have the same approach when you reach out to them. you don't just say, Hey, there is this deal that I wanna talk to you about. No, it's like you know, there is this brand and they really wanna have you on board at whatever capacity you're feeling comfortable with and at whatever capacity you can be, you can join. So yeah do you send all the information and it's like a business proposal rather than just a collaboration opportunity. and yeah with smaller influencers it's it's a bit easier because not because they don't care who they work with but because they don't have that you know lineup of brands and they aren't you know they they they're more open to opportunities, they are more flexible. It's not a bad thing. Again, I love working with small influencers.

With bigger influencers, it's more like business. And and also with bigger influencers, you have to start. For example, if I have a campaign, if I have a deal that we need to sign you know, a certain influencer for, by the end of the year, I reach out to a big influencer at the beginning of the year because they already have a lineup of brands that they work with. So you have to you have to start ahead. You cannot reach out like a a month before Black Friday, like, hey, do you want this deal? No, of course. They even if they do, there is no you know, the schedule is done, it's packed. So so yeah, it's like it's more like a business conversation rather than a collaboration opportunity.

Jordan Lally:34:28
Gotcha. Cool. Thanks for the insights. Now when it comes to networking in person, I wanted to circle back. Do you have any philosophy and principles there? And I guess w when you are trying to network with a potential client, I most people approach pretty girls, so I feel like for you it would be pretty easy. But whenever whenever you have to, I guess, approach the person that you would like to speak with, is there anything that you say or Anything that you find successful with?

Amina:35:00
it it well if it's a if it's an offline let's say it's a conference that I go to. I of course I I do my research before I go there. I check the guest list because usually it's available, publicly available. I check and I do my research on speakers and I select the the ones that I wanna talk to. And and you already know what they're gonna talk about if they're

Jordan Lally:35:08
Exactly, yeah.

Amina:35:30
if they're if they're gonna be, you know, on stage you know, making a speech. So so I I do my research, I select people that I wanna connect with, and then I go to that conference and whenever they are done speaking, yeah, I just approach them. I I don't know. I'm I'm kind of fearless when it comes to that. So I'm I don't I don't shy away. so I just approach them and I you know whatever resonated with me from their speech. I just you know, I just highlight that and compliment that. You have to be sincere. If there is nothing, you cannot just make things up because they start asking questions. what exactly resonated? And you're like, I have a cat, you know, it's it you cannot Yeah. It's it's a it's a research.

Jordan Lally:36:11
That's all funny.

Jordan Lally:36:17
Okay, so you're be you're just bold. Got you, got you. So be bold, be confident, but more importantly be authentic, right? Be sincere. Understood.

Amina:36:27
What about you? Do you have a tip? Like a Yeah.

Jordan Lally:36:33
For networking? Yeah, I I think genuine compliments always go a long way. It's a pretty easy ice icebreaker. I mean for guys I can say, Dude, I like your shoes, man. Where'd you get those shoes at? I can just talk about anything else after that point. With women, like nails or hair, or if we're at a business setting and like they gave something of valuable, like they like like they gave something of value.

Amina:36:41
Absolutely.

Amina:36:45
Yeah.

Amina:36:57
Yeah.

Jordan Lally:36:59
Like if they spoke, then yeah, I can definitely compliment like what their speech was about. But if it's someone that didn't give a talk and I still want to network with them, yeah, if like an easy e if it's a woman, yeah. Yeah, I absolutely Does it work? I mean from my experience, yeah. If it also just depends on like the person as well, you know, some women like it, some some women don't, but

Amina:37:04
Hm.

You compliment the hair. Does it does it work though?

Amina:37:26
Yeah, that's that's what I was gonna say. You have to read the room. You have to, you know, if there is I know it sounds creepy, but what I what I always do, for example, if there's a person and they there is no speaking happening and it's like a a networking event and I wanna approach somebody, it's creepy, but you have really have to pay attention to that person, their body language, their confidence. Watch

Jordan Lally:37:53
I'm gonna stop it really, really quick.

Amina:37:57
You really have to like read the room, the energy if they're open to a conversation. And if there is something that they, you know, you it's like it's something about the energy, the confidence, and because sometimes people they and when it's like a public public event, they they they they tend to not talk and just be shy and just you know, they close a little bit. So you really have to s you know.

You cannot approach hey, you have do you have a cat? Do you have like where did you go for you know for vacation? so you really have to you the the scripted icebreakers, they they don't work. You have to of course you have to have them, but before you approach somebody, it's nice to kind of analyze that person's behavior and then just play off that. something something that I'm practicing too. Yeah, it's creepy. I know. I'm sorry, guys. It's just it's just a good

Jordan Lally:38:56
No le fun And I also feel like guys are just e well, I'm like a bro, okay? So like for me, I think it's just easy to network with guys. Like I compliment their shoes and like, my god, thank you so much. You know what I mean? It it's easy. It's just easy. For a woman I

Amina:38:57
Yeah.

Amina:39:08
And it starts like that, right?

Yeah, I agree. With with guys it's easier for me too, yeah. Just

Jordan Lally:39:17
yeah, I wonder why.

Amina:39:20
Shocking, shocking.

Jordan Lally:39:24
But s okay, so I know you travel all over the world, which is super badass. I am not I mean, I want to be like that, but I am a workaholic, so it's like it's hard. so talk to us about like the events in London versus the events in like the states. Are there any differences or like people or just people? I guess like we can talk about cultural differences. You're in Russia right now, which is like

Amina:39:45
of course. I I actually have two like very, very different examples. events in London and my conference that I did, I planned and organized in South Korea. So it's two different parts of the world. So yeah. okay. London. gosh, you need a lot of icebreakers. God, my god, you need a lot of icebreakers.

Jordan Lally:40:00
Holy shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amina:40:12
And it was customer development interviews that we that I was, you know, that I was doing. So I was interviewing a lot of people to get some information on on products that they use, like you know, apps for their for their like banking applications that they're using. So we can we can get information what they liked, what they didn't like, and then based on that develop our application. So that was the type of event that we that we were running and yeah yeah in London the it's it's not easy. It's it's not it's not easy to to to break the eyes and to to d to to make them open up to t to talk to have this conversation flow you really have to because I when I talk

Jordan Lally:40:52
People just like not assholes but just don't want to talk.

Amina:41:10
and when I interview somebody, I prefer listening over talking. So I just I keep my mouth shut and I just let another person talk. And and in London it didn't work. No. I had I had to I had to talk a lot because they give you a short answer and then they just stare at you. And you're like

Jordan Lally:41:32
They don't ask you a follow up question, 'cause that shit pisses me off.

Amina:41:34
And then and then your brain is like, I know you know, I have that monkey in my head, like I don't I don't have anything else to say. So first two interviews, gosh, I was I was panicking because my strategy just failed. It just crumbled in front of me. I was like it it it was working before. And then I I started using my, you know.

Charisma that I just pulled out out of nowhere and I started I was being such an actress. Nothing worked. And then I just realized that okay, they are they are it's it's a it's great people, really nice, welcoming, but you just have to give them more time and you have to ask them specific questions. So your vague brief questions about the weather. and the office and the it it doesn't work. You have to answer. They don't they don't do the small talk kind of crap. They they are not interested in that. And that resonates with me because I am from Russia and we don't do small talks. It doesn't exist in our culture. So our small talk is about childhood trauma, philosophy, psychology. So this is our small talk. Heavy. We play heavy.

Jordan Lally:42:50
I love it. Yeah, I love it.

Amina:42:53
And and yeah, I just I just realized that okay with with with them it's kind of the same. So I just had to go back to myself. And I yeah, I just once I pulled out that Russian side of me and I started asking like deep questions, you know, not just about application, but actually like I started connecting technical questions to emotional side, like you know, ask them asking them about not just What features in your applications do you like? no, it doesn't work with them. what feature would actually make your life easier? So you just reframe the question and then you know they open up like that. So that was my gosh, that was stressful. the first two interviews, my God. Me and my colleague we were sweating. And then and then South Korea.

They just don't talk.

Jordan Lally:43:54
Very, very like to themselves shy not shy culture, but to themselves culture for sure.

Amina:43:58
Yeah.

I love their culture. I love I love those people. But I did this event. So I invited a lot of business owners, marketing experts, decision makers. I had three speakers, including me, keynote speakers. And then I was like, okay, three people is enough. And then we stopped talking and then we just do this brunch because there was catering of food and we just, you know, network. And the the third speaker. she finished her speech, everybody clapped, and I was like, No, talk people. Talk to one another. I actually had to go from each person to another person. It's like, I remember you are doing and my gosh, I don't remember what they were doing, but I had to I had to f really flex you know my brain cells and everything, and I was like, okay, you do this.

I know that there's this person in this room and you you should connect. And I started connecting people. And cultural difference is that it's in South Korea, if you want people to talk at your event or any event, you have to remember that they talk to each other first and only then they go and talk to foreigners.

And I was a foreigner, a lot of people were foreigners, so that we were like

Amina:45:29
So we have to talk to one another, but it's again, it's not because they're shy. It's because it's in their culture to respect each other's you know, personal space and they just give each other a lot of time to get used to one another in the same room. So first after we we were done speaking, the first thirty minutes it was kind of cold, but I had that venue rented. until like four p.m. and at three p.m. we you know closer to the end these they I we couldn't just kick them out because they started talking to one another and they just were exchanging insights and questions and I was like okay do I have to pay more it's like we don't have food anymore every you know we have to we have to be out it's like the the owner is here so so again with with for example people in London You have to ask specific questions, you have to go deep, you have to you have to be very detailed and no small talking, vague kind of stuff. With Koreans, you have to give them time and you have to give them space, don't push. they don't need your deep questions, they will ask them themselves, but after just you know, after they get used to one another. So if you're planning an event in South Korea. you know, rent a venue for longer period of time. so not like from ten AM to four PM like I did. Give it like you know, twelve hours or something. So yeah, that's that's something that that I could just think of right away.

Jordan Lally:47:11
Right.

Jordan Lally:47:17
And and random question, I guess what are you doing in South Korea? You're just like, I I I wanna go there.

Amina:47:21
I was I was I when it comes to my job, my strongest expertise is beauty industry because we were working with a lot of beauty brands in the States, in Europe, in Asia, and in South Korea they actually have a lot, a lot of skincare brands and it's huh?

Jordan Lally:47:49
Their skin looks great. Their skin looks great. The Korean skin like They know what they're doing.

Amina:47:54
my god, yes. And the hair. they know they know their stuff, yeah. And apparently I was, you know, I al I always thought that it it's just the skincare. They n they they know something. No, it they they just have it. They don't even care about the skincare, they just have it naturally. I'm like I was I was looking for the answer and they were like, it's my DNA. Okay. That's the answer. But okay, with with South Korea, yeah, I just

Jordan Lally:48:17
Fuck off.

Amina:48:24
I underst I I I realize that this is a huge market and a lot of Korean brands they you know they wanna they wanna launch and expand overseas in the States, in Europe. So and I could do that. I could help them. I I've done that before for Chinese brands, why not? And I cannot just start reaching out to companies and offering my service. So the best way to launch your business, especially mine, it's not you know, we are not cheap. so w when you offer like a high ticket service, you have to keep in mind that, you know, personal connection, building that, you know, offline conversation is very important. So for me, I couldn't just you know plan like you know 30 meetings and just meet each person one by one. I would go crazy. So I decided to do this conference and just get everybody in the same room.

And yeah, tell them what I'm made of. So yeah, that's what it is.

Jordan Lally:49:28
I like that. I like that. Unfortunately we are wrapping up on time, so two more questions.

Amina:49:32
Unfortunately, unfortunately.

Jordan Lally:49:35
Amina, looking over your career, and this this goes for, you know, professional and personal, what do you feel like has been the best advice you ever received?

And you can definitely ponder that for a second. It's kind of a

Amina:49:49
yeah, there is one that I also pass to other people because recently some young students and that's so touching to be honest, they started asking for advice and I'm like, Wow, I I finally reached that point when people ask for like success advice. I'm like, Who sh wait, hold on a second, I'm not there yet. But I'm happy to share what I have learned. it's not something that I that I heard from others, but it's something that I had had to learn in a in a hard way actually. Don't let anybody or anything define your goal.

Set it for yourself, imagine it, visualize your goal in detail, and just go for it. Whatever it takes, don't get distracted. Because on your way to your goal, you will meet a lot of people who will make you doubt it. you will meet a lot of obstacles and a lot of situations that will make you think, maybe my goal is too big, maybe I'm being too delulu about this. No, be the Lulu.

Be be be so big in your dreams that people will think that you're delusional. That's great. But don't let anybody touch your goal. A anything and anybody. It's untouchable. So that's something that I'm that I'm practicing myself. and nobody's allowed to touch my goal. No one. And don't let anybody do that for you as well.

Jordan Lally:51:02
You need to be

Jordan Lally:51:24
If people don't call you crazy, you're not dreaming big enough.

Amina:51:27
Yeah y I want that on my t shirt.

Jordan Lally:51:30
So it sounds like a big manifest. Hands off to you. it's it's has done wonders in my life as well.

Amina:51:32
Yeah.

Amina:51:38
Likewise, I'm it's my everyday routine in the morning and then when I go to bed manifesting. That's also something maybe I could recommend, but it's it's also something that you have to find and get to it yourself.

Jordan Lally:51:58
Yeah, we talked off camera earlier and w which is one of the reasons where I'm like, This shit is not gonna work, but you're essentially trying to change somebody's entire belief system if you go down that approach and they have to come to that conclusion by themselves.

Amina:52:04
Ha ha.

Amina:52:11
Yeah. Yeah. That's why I don't I don't include it in my advice. because it's a it's a personal path and if you find it, great. If you find something else that works for you, also great. So everybody has their own path.

Jordan Lally:52:16
Yeah.

Jordan Lally:52:25
It's one of the Yeah, it's it's how I got sober. I mean, to be candid with you. It's how like I really cleaned up my act and like changed as a man. So like that shit worked very well for me. Anyways, Amina, where can they find you?

Amina:52:33
Yeah. you can find me in the description under this video below. Check that. Check that description. I was working with a lot of influencers. Come on, I know how to say those things. you can also find me and my story and my agency story on on the website, influence dash space.com. You can connect with me on that website, you can connect with my team.

Jordan Lally:52:45
How about it?

Amina:53:06
And you can see what we all the amazing stuff that we are doing. So yeah. I I would be happy to see you all there.

Jordan Lally:53:15
Amina, thank you so much for joining us. It was a blast having you one.

Amina:53:18
Likewise, thanks everybody and thank you, Jordan. You are special. Bye.